Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Some brewery tap rooms and bars around here are beginning to close and some bottle shops are becoming take away only. I was supposed to be brewing with a mate today but his wife has symptoms. Going to go out and visit a few local businesses before it's all gone.

I think the problem is that there is not a right tor wrong answer at the moment. Nor are there only two options: the UK and the rest of the world. Other countries have also taken positions more akin the UK in terms of keeping schools open, etc..

They are. That's what the WHO facilitates.

I think the question that a lot of people in the U.K. have is simply why are we so different to these other countries?

There’s no denying we are currently the outlier.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/how-do-coronavirus-containment-measures-vary-across-europe

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This photo of Chinese police and and medical staff dealing with the Coronavirus in the Altai mountains is entirely my aesthetic.

Source: https://twitter.com/JackTindale/status/1238441570069774337

I’ve got no time for him either but on this particular subject he does have some previous. I’m not saying I agree with him, I don’t have the expertise.

And an interview with US CNN isn’t going to win him many votes in London.

I think the question that a lot of people in the U.K. have is simply why are we so different to these other countries?

Will those countries have success in containing the virus? China seemingly has, but is on a completely other level regarding resources applied to the countries listed.

‘I bet they are but there will certainly be lots of business owners and managers who will protect their own pay packet over that of the workers. The government should bail out the businesses similar to the banks but ensure the money goes to the workers’

I think there will be many small business owners worried about their staff... and how they can pay them if no monies come in for several months.
Many businesses owners have a lot at stake here.. ...loans secured on homes etc
Don’t tar all business with the same brush it’s insulting

No idea, but that’s not the question. The question is how have we come to decide upon this different response, a response which is the outlier.

Edit - Maybe that is the crucial point, that the government is not being open enough or at the very least, communicating effectively enough how they arrived at this decision.

There’s no denying we are currently the outlier.

Perhaps helpful to add to the list you posted is that the other Nordic haven´t shut schools either but low population, very low population density. My family are from a part of Finland that has a pop density of 2 (two, as in two times one) people per square kilometre.

I didn’t remotely tar all business owners with the same brush as that would be insane.

Just checking

See bankers bonuses during financial crash for an example of self preservation.

the government is not being open enough or at the very least, communicating effectively enough how they arrived at this decision.

This Twitter thread gives a run down of the "experts" who have influenced the governments thinking - https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1238418007824764930

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You've probably got 5, maybe 4...

3,2,1...

I’m struggling to see how it is equal. There seem far more benefits for the business owners than the workers.
I’m not suggesting bad intentions just that employers and employees have different needs.
But I do wish you all the best.

Yes, the app is also buggered

Yeah, she acknowledges that there are differing approaches. She's also not aware of what's going on on the front lines of treatment and is worried about the local governments' abilities to implement proper procedures. Nevertheless, her point is that this isn't being swept under the rug and there isn't some dark Tory agenda.

Is there any chance she could enlighten us on the estimates of how far European countries are from peaking as that would obviously help explain why the UK ´s strategy differs?

why are we so different to these other countries?

I'll ask my wife this when she returns but I suspect it's because our experts think the virus will peak later here than in countries listed. If the UK gov closes schools in 2 weeks, it won't have been a sudden decision.

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of thing that’s helpful to read.

employers and employees have different needs.

Not really, not in small businesses. We all need the business to survive / succeed in order to get paid. In many cases, including mine, several of the employees make more money out of the business than the owners.

Much as I love the idea of 'workers of all countries unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains'.. the real world is a bit more convoluted than that.

As it happens, if the business goes tits up, I'll probably be more or less OK, mainly because I'm not that far off retirement age. A lot of other people, both employers and employees, are going to suffer a great deal.

fyi: that fella is one of the main proponents of the gov's current plan.

Closing schools and nurseries is not that clear cut. Who will look after the children? If the parents are at work, how does one mitigate the risk of grandparents looking after children?

Very much agree with the letter to govt from the hospitality industry representative. If employee livelihoods could be protected by govt while businesses are mothballed then they will all have jobs to come back to.

I’ve told staff that if we’re forced to close or business just grinds to a halt then they’ll get full pay for 2 weeks, half pay for 2 weeks and statutory after that. After that point there’ll be no money left. I won’t be paying myself for the foreseeable future and obvs all non essential spending is halted. I regret paying my VAT and rent at the start of the month as realistically these could have been deferred to protect the cash reserve.

Fortunately my wife is the main bread winner and is a teacher so our livelihood is secure. That of my staff is not; 2 x young people with high rent and one my best mate, sole earner in his house with 2 young kids who I just persuaded to come to work for me from a more financially secure business which feels awful right now. Really shitty time for hospitality, this sector needs some safeguards otherwise a huge swathe of the national workforce are fucked.

Closing schools and nurseries is not that clear cut. Who will look after the children? If the parents are at work, how does one mitigate the risk of grandparents looking after children?

Again, a lot of very clever people who talk to each other across borders all the time have advised officials in other countries closures are the way to go.

Was wrong, Norway has ordered full shool closures and other draconian measures. Has highest per capita positives number after Italy´s but perhaps that´s because they´re awash with cash hence can afford massive testing capacity.

Perhaps I should have actually read that list. Iceland seems to have closed only secondary schools and unis though.