Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Okay I’ll ask a very direct question.

In what exact way is asking about the legality of vaccine passports so I can be better placed to inform people who are hesitant or completely against it trolling.

asking about the legality of vaccine passports

What makes you think a bunch of fixie skidders are the experts on this subject?

Here's the answer to your above question.

And don't you fucking dare think about clogging up a hospital bed while you do so.

But we don't was a society take that stance with smoking, dietary related conditions or other lifestyle driven conditions, so why with this one illness?

so why with this one illness?

Good point; profit.

People here have a very good knowledge on lots of things, including covid, houses, bikes obviously, legal things, Brexit.

They also tend to have a great way of putting it across. Seems as good a place as any to learn to be honest.

The knowledge from Yukirin alone will n the past day on infection rates from vaccinated people alone was worth it.

I guess because I can't catch a potentially lethal case of being fat from you, I can do that all on my own ta v much.

But you are saying they don't deserve treatment for a preventable disease when we treat a huge number of people for preventable conditions, that's the bit I'm questioning

Ah fair enough.

Yeah I see your point and it's a good one, but given the fact that there are people having consultations and surgery back burnered for lack of resources - my mum had to have a hip replacement at a private hospital because of this - its a fucking bitter pill to swallow knowing wards are full of people who would likely not be there had they not fucked around and found out.

Which raises the issue of funding or lack thereof I spose.

OK.
Vaccine passports, as proposed, will be legal because they will be passed into law, in the same way many recent covid restrictions became law. Whether that is good or bad law is a different question.
It is not a human rights issue, because going to a club is not a human right.
Vaccinations have been compulsory in some countries at some points but that is not happening here. Some vaccinations are also necessary to be allowed to do some jobs in some countries) and that might extend to covid vaccines in some areas here in time, but again it's not a human right to be able to do a specific job so there you have it.

Tory austerity has a major part to play in that. Not that there would ever be a good timing for covid, but the NHS was really run down before all this.

If we can make health passports, how would you feel about the government limiting fast-food, alcohol and cigarette purchases?
GPS on your phone can monitor speed, connect your driving habits to it too?
Is the next logical step a NI premium for risky individuals? What about sports injury?

This is what causes my vaccine passport hesitancy, maybe I've read too many distopian stories.

Latest ONS mortality causes - I'd expect covid to increase in Aug

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Yes the logical step is an insurance based system where premiums are based on lifestyle factors but that just seems so icky to me, I like the current system if it could be reformed and properly funded but maybe that just isn't financially sustainable to provide blanket coverage

maybe that just isn't financially sustainable to provide blanket coverage

Well it would be if there was some wealth redistribution and effective tax, or stop giving dodgy NHS contracts to your mates.
I really don't like the sound of a system where rich people can do what they want but poor people darent buy their kids a BMX or skateboard through fear of not being able to afford for them to fall off...

Get where you are coming from

Been over a year since my mum died. Want to do something but can't see the point. Lots of older venerable people together might no be a great idea. No idea how I would cope with causing the death/serious illness of someone else.

Don't forget whooping cough too.

Also one to think about...have you had polio or small pox? Why not?

After a certain age we all will have dementia/Alzheimer's it is a fact of life when you age.

I don't think that statement is accurate.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/dementia/dementia-prevention/

The problem is if you ban the children of vaccine refusers from education you are creating an underclass of poverty and crime for the future.

Sorry, late to the party...

No. THE PARENTS are creating a problem for the future.

My mate's son has severe immune deficiency from other problems to the level that a "normal" childhood illness would almost certainly land him in hospital and possibly cause his death. Why on earth should another parent's choice either put him at risk or push him out of mainstream education? It's also batshit that people who don't want them or their families vaccinated are relying on others who have been vaccinated to protect them by way of herd immunity.

I'm all for freedom of choice. I'm not for freedom from the consequences of choices.

No. THE PARENTS are creating a problem for the future.

Whoever creates the problem.we all get to live in that society.

I too have a friend with a child with immune issues. She is having to restrict the activities she takes part in. She didn't go to school at all last year. It sucks, I agree. I still don't think we should restrict the life chances of children based on their misguided parents.

I guess I just don’t agree that we limit the life choices of some kids based on the decisions of some other kids parents. If you can find a solution that doesn’t require our friends to give their kids a much smaller life to compensate for the idiocy of someone else then I’m all ears.

Edit...I'll just leave this here

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For anybody else that was unfamiliar with ADE.

@8b

Have you looked at the rest of the data you’ve posted?

It clearly shows high vaccine effectiveness at reducing seriously illness, hospitalisation and death across all age groups.

If ADE was ‘showing it’s ugly head’ then hospitalisations of those with vaccines would be higher than those without.

I would attribute the higher number of cases to two things:

Those who chose to be vaccinated being more likely to be responsible and capable human beings, therefore more likely to get tested if they have symptoms.

Those in that category more likely to have school age children and therefore have a higher likely exposure to the virus.

There isn't a solution where everybody wins. Life sucks.

While @atz and I differ on domestic restrictions for the unvaccinated I think we both agree there should be some. It seems our dear leaders don't and there will be no vaccine passport requirements in England.

UK health secretary Sajid Javid has confirmed that plans for vaccine passports in England are going to be scrapped, speaking on the BBC’s Andrew Marr show