Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Also, there is no clarity on antibodies in any case. Everything I've seen
/read in regards to that was relating to scientists being half baffled with how little antibodies people have against it or how the antibodies disappear much quicker than they had hoped or expected.

He must be a medical marvel then...

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scientists being half baffled

I've not seen anything about people being baffled. Maybe disappointment at how quickly antibodies were dropping to begin with, but antibodies are not the only thing working to ensure immunity, and as more research has been conducted things are appearing perhaps slightly more optimistic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/02/t-cell-covid-immunity-present-in-adults-six-months-after-first-infection

There are. The thing about Covid is we don't know if getting it twice is common given a long enough gap or if on a second infection people are likely to be asymptomatic but still spread. While there are lots of unknowns being cautious would seem reasonable.

To me it is clear that while the rate of infection is increasing we aren't being cautious enough. You appear to have a different opinion.

What makes you think they haven't?

People who spin this kind line seem to ignore the main reason for lockdown - without it, the hospitals will be overwhelmed. If R stays above 1 for long enough, the virus will grow, and the healthcare system will be unable to cope.

If this happens, you get loads of Covid deaths, but you also get lots of other extra deaths as there is inadequate healthcare provision for normal illness and accidents.

In this scenario, any deaths associated with lockdown you've prevented by not locking down will be exceeded by the extra non Covid deaths of an overwhelmed healthcare system - plus all the extra Covid deaths and suffering.

People who really push the civil liberties/no lockdown option need to consider if they'd be happy to go about their daily business with very limited underlying healthcare provision. Once they've done that, they also need to consider if it's fair for them to ask the rest the country to do the same.

Which government are you talking about?

I thought you were in Italy?

Here's a start: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925854/S0769_Summary_of_effectiveness_and_harms_of_NPIs.pdf

Given that this document is titled "Summary of the effectiveness and harms of different non-pharmaceutical interventions".

It's two months old though, it's just the first one I could find with a few seconds of googling of "sage evidence uk".

No, he's under a bridge, looking at all the billy goats crossing the bridge and feeding him. When will you lot learn?

Sorry :-(

It's a fair point.

Ignored.

That's probably the most reasonable response to the anti-lockdown stance i've read for a while, i'm fed up arguing with people that it has to be like this or the heath service will effectively shut down - in some areas the hospitals are worryingly full again...

Does anyone know of anyone that has received the vaccine yet? I have a friend that has, apparently due to being in an "at-risk" category but i'm wondering how widespread this is at present or if they're near the top of the list

It's always a nice feeling when you see a ruckus on a thread, get confused as to why you suddenly lost track of the conversation only to realise you'd already done the sensible thing and put the offending troll on ignore

On the first point - one of the main issues with the anti-lockdown squad is that the point of measures (masks/lockdown/WFH etc) is that things don't get worse if you put them in place, so there is always some idiot saying 'well, it's not so bad' when it is not so bad only because of the measures taken.

On the vaccine, they haven't started using them yet. If someone has had one it is only as part of a trial surely.

Yeah, can you imagine what it would be like if nightclubs were still open, music festivals being held and big crowds at sporting events?

If you don’t have lockdown you need another successful way of managing the pandemic...

I know people who are members of a trial but they don't know if they got a vaccine or some saline. Apparently there is a complicated set of circumstances that could unblind the trial and they would find out if they had the vaccine or not.

None of the vaccines are licenced yet so no one should have it outside a trial.

Lynchman's back from the dead. After a trip to Italy.

I've just come out of hospital. Not for Covid-19, but the impact of the last lockdown.

In Italy?

So far; you’re British born and a British citizen, a teacher/blended-learning specialist currently living in Italy and have a disability, who just got out of a UK hospital.

And a bike with a 25.4mm seatpost, but unknown seat tube OD...

Fuck's sake, Ed, which bit of 'Do Not Feed The Troll' are you not getting? You showed admirable self-retraint in not taking the bait when Bobble Hat Cunt and his army of sock puppets tried trolling you on Insta. Please try and show the same self-restraint on here.

Anyone with recommendations on PCR testing? Partner needs to fly home for Christmas and it’s a bit of a minefield out there.

@villa-ru @jellybaby

Yeah I thought it was still awaiting final approval too - it's a friend of my wife, entirely possible the phrase "trial" has been misplaced somewhere along the line, either that it's some secret squirrel vaccine club i've rumbled