General Election 2019

where the least well off are often the most right wing

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Exactly so ROI needs to be very very gentle, lay the groundwork but also let the process take its time.

I am not exactly happy about all this, there is still so much poverty and problems, we didn't need Brexit in the mix.

Hopefully the worst for you will the the good old traffic jams/busy crossborder train service :D

Boris has pulled off the republican culture war tactics. For American flyover states that are poorer and very pro republican you have post-industrial northern Britain.

The Democrats are heavily a party of the coastal elites. Labour is a party of metropolitan elites.

whether there actually is a route back to the traditional Labour core vote now.

I doubt it.

It's important to remember where the Labour movement came from - two world wars X their impact on class structures, and workers having an incredibly low standard of living.

I'm not going to undermine how tough life is for those in absolute poverty, but that is not the majority of the country. The majority have a roof, plumbing, food, electronics, etc. and despite health risks in some industries it is nothing compared to what it was.

Quite simply it's not bad enough, and it probably won't be.

whether there actually is a route back to the traditional Labour core vote now.

This. Brexit was always going to fuck Labour - pursuing leave loses Momentum/the chattering classes and anything remain alienates the core voter even further.

Would Corbyn have a chance in the next election in alternate universe where a more centrist leader lost yesterday?

Boris has pulled off the republican culture war tactics. For American flyover states that are poorer and very pro republican you have post-industrial northern Britain.

The Democrats are heavily a party of the coastal elites. Labour is a party of metropolitan elites.

Yes, this is what I think, although the Democrats are roughly where Thatcher was politically, whereas Johnsons Tories are now slightly to the right or the Republicans but without the Evangelical Christian element.

If Labour is now the party of the MLE (and I think it is) then it's going to be tough to see a route to power - what's going to turn the now conservative working class voter away from Johnson?

This. Brexit was always going to fuck Labour - pursuing leave loses Momentum/the chattering classes and anything remain alienates the core voter even further.

Labour, and Corbyn, did ok in 2017 when they backed Leave, much to the chagrin of many on here who went off to vote for the Lib Dems.

Some things that won't improve Labours chances at the next election:

• blaming media bias
  
• blaming the 'ignorance' of working class voters who voted Tory
  
• blaming Brexit for this result
  
  

Some things that well:

• root and branch disavowal and eradication of anti-semitism
  
• a leader who is not tainted by negative associations
  
• a more pragmatic policy offering (i.e. no four day week and free broadband). If you really believe you can deliver the radical stuff, earn the right to do it in a second term, but deliver the bread and butter (NHS, education, social care) in the first term
  
• less rhetoric framed in Marxism and class war.
  
  

The tragedy of Corbyn / momentum is that they want a full socialist Utopia or nothing at all. But Britain is a small 'c' conservative country - that is the fundamental starting point you need to work from.

Republicans are way more fucked up on social conservatism (anti gay, anti trans) than Johnson presents himself as.

Labour, and Corbyn, did ok in 2017 when they backed Leave, much to the chagrin of many on here who went off to vote for the Lib Dems.

Yeah, but they still didn't win did they?

any on here who went off to vote for the Lib Dems.

The shitshow of brexit

Come off it mate, labours manifesto was hardly full socialist utopia, most of it was “bread and butter”. Brexit fucked everything. not the policies.

a leader who is not tainted by negative associations

I don't think this is relevant.

Boris Johnson has just as many negative associations.

They were willfully ignored.

fuck a duck

Yeah, but they still didn't win did they?

If they'd held onto those Leave seats in the north, midlands, and with the Conservatives losing in Scotland, and a bit around London, how far off would we be from a Labour minority government?

My old man is from Ashington, family all miners etc. Moved to australia in the 60s to escape the oppressive class system (bemused i live here lol).

Growing up there were stories of implausibly evil torys. For his family, being part of the labour movement was such a powerful part of their identity. i feel like this election may represent an inter-generational severance. The poverty is not as grinding as it once was. Once these communities have broken the taboo of voting tory, it will be easier next time.

I don't think this is relevant.

Doesn't the research suggest that it is?

The perception of the voters is that it's relevant, and the Tory campaign & leadership knew this and exploited this.

That's what wins elections.

The election is all about Brexit, truly despressing

perfect summary

Boris Johnson has just as many negative association.

Islamphobia and homophobia is rampant in the Tory, anti-Semitic is an excellent tool for election as it allow them to paint the Labour as the Jew-hating party.

Corbyn should just retire to manage the numerous libel law suits he should be undertaking against Britain's media institutions.

How much in damages should you be awarded for having your chances of being PM destroyed?

the media is a fact of the british political landscape and nothing will change it

Still doesn't mean they were acting lawfully with some of the shite thrown at Corbyn, not least the BBC's interference in election proceedings. It's a stain on the entire country that this is permitted to pass-it certainly wouldn't be elsewhere in Europe.

Highlight of the day for me so far.