Problem: anyone like steep seat tube angles!?

Name removed.
Can you find another example in the same size online?

A 21.5 inch (half inch bigger) which the customer was told 74 seat angle.

It looks like there might be a case under the consumer rights act around fit for intended use. I think this, plus my argument that if a feature (a) affects intended use and (b) is so different to most other items of the same type that it should be mentioned as a feature, is the way forward.

Plus, find a bunch of examples of bikes with 76 or greater that all happen to be Super Slack MTBs, TT rigs etc.

Agreed - not hard to do. They claimed that they have 'had no problems' with this design, which I think is flawed logic as they don't know how many of the users of these frames are in regular use, whether people are as well fit as they could be on them, how many people might not be comfortable on them without figuring out exactly why, etc.

BITD Dave Moulton and others recommended steeper angles for smaller frames....

http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/category/bicycle-design

How did you not know the geometry of the bike before you bought it?

If it's who I think it is, I have a 53cm track frame made by them last year. I checked my seat tube and it's 74. I would have expected a track bike to be steeper than an Audax bike.

Sounds like nob jacksoff?

Just so we're clear, when you say you had an OTP built, is it a stock model in custom sizing?

Never heard of a steep seat tube angle being used to avoid toe overlap, how would that work? Small frames often have slack head tube angles/higher fork rake for this issue though.

Super_Ted on here appears to have one, looking at the build thread the seat tube angle is given as 75 degrees.

If they've confirmed it as 76 degrees, then I guess it can't be a manufacturing cock-up, just a strange choice in angles. Can't believe they don't list the geometry on their website, it'd avoid issues like this!

I guess so they can move your butt forward and increase the front centre for the same top tube length

Yeah, that's the one.

Ta, that makes sense, guess it doesn't work for some though!

More the opposite - it's a stock sizing with a few custom touches - no brazed on eyelets and tubing upgrades.

Yep. They're either fibbing or are obsessed with avoiding toe overlap on mudguard bikes. (It's normally a mudguard frame with no eyelets requested on mine as for summer use)

Mine is fitted for mudguards...

Also the paint looks nice but it's chipping like anything. I've been considering ringing the about the issue but this thread doesn't fill me with confidence.

Edit: I will say it's an amazing bike to ride.

I checked the tube lengths, BB drop, but trusted the angles to be within normal ranges to obtain a typical position for my proportions. I've been able to get a good seating position on several bikes with normal angles from 73-74.5 seat angle...

Again, for much smaller frames than this though. I think Moulton's recs would see mine with around 74.5

Surely this means that if you get your seat in the right position for you (big setback post plus smp saddle - 10cm long rails and you sit really far back on them so might help), your reach to the bar will be ~3cm longer than you want?

Exactly.- I've made this point to them and it's a well discussed point when other manufacturers discuss the drawbacks of steep seat angles - it causes the reach to the bars to increase.

They do fuck up; 11 years ago my Vigorelli was shipped without the seat tube being brazed to the BB shell only tacked resulting in it suddenly detaching itself on the Bricklayers Arms roundabout.

A post on here got the management's attention and frame was returned repaired and resprayed with custom sprayed logos instead of transfers.

Did you tell them you were posting on forums about it or did they come across it? Also I think they might be a smaller operation now.

I think their attention was brought to the post by a third party and they came on here and posted to tell me to get in touch directly. I was a bit emotional in the OG post which I think I killed.

I mean, your frame came apart mid-ride, which is pretty damn clear cut. I'm seeing more evidence now of people having frames in the same size as mine without such steep angles though, so it does look fishy.