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PhilDAS, so did I. They are claiming it is intentional. If it is, I find it remarkable. They are saying it is normal and they've never had any issues previously. I know from my existing/former bikes and measurements that I'm of normal proportions.
It's a shame as the paint is excellent and it's nice and stiff out of the saddle. It's a superb looking mix of old and new aesthetics. -
76 degrees may be fine but its not normal.
I've also read reports of people buying frames that are considerably un-straight before, amongst all of the positive reviews I may add, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was an accident that slipped through.
Its certainly not going to be ideal for an audax bike. I'd personally argue the point and get it swapped for a new one.
Go as far as quoting the Sale of Goods Act or Consumer Rights Act, whichever it is that says goods sold must be fit for intended purpose -
Cheers, I suppose what I mean is that its not typical - is mostly associated with TT or track bikes, and is remarkable/rare enough to need to be stated on purchase. By extreme, It's not so much that it means an extreme position - you could still have the bars high, for example, but that it's at the extreme end of what's normal as a seat angle, or even outside of normal.
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That may well be, but did you sign off a final drawing of the build? What are you trying to achieve in this thread? I'm trying to give you options. If you're not happy with the build take it up with the builder, if you want to try solutions, try them.
Hang on, it was off the peg? So you would've read the measurements before purchase, no? Or test rode a built version? -
I've suggested that it's not fit for intended use - riding more than a few miles - which did not go down well. Thing is, I don't want to fall out with them - I like the combination of (relative) affordability, quick turnaround, tradition and local labour they offer, and would like to be able to recommend them...
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No - it's handbuilt but 'off the peg only', which on a model named 'Audax' would not imply anything out of normal ranges. I was told normal road geo. They're claiming this is their standard angle. I am trying them, without much success. Have even suggested I would be willing to pay something towards an alternative, just to get it sorted. Just posting to try to gain some perspective from others.
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Thing is, I don't want to fall out with them
You can't be foreign. Only someone English or possibly Canadian would put politeness over their own happiness
Just say you're not happy and you'd like it swapped for a new one. That's it. Be polite but concise. You're the one out of pocket, they're the ones who should be providing you with what you paid for (a bike suitable for audax riding. Unless you're riding 600km on aero bars, I'd suggest it isn't fit for this purpose, no discussion)
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If it was bigger then you wouldn't be running out of space with the setback and you could run slammed or a -17 stem to put the bars back down to where they need to be. But the fact it's custom means you're likely to struggle a bit with getting it upsized. I'd probably be hassling them until they proposed a solution.
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If you're interested in buying it, I can PM you if I can't get them to sort it. If I can, I'm sure they'd sell it to you! But I'm reluctant to openly name and shame even though someone's already worked it out. I'd like to give them more chance to sort it and am only posting here as they've suggested they won't do anything, so wanted a bit of advice.
hippy
PhilDAS
Howard
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Problem: anyone like steep seat tube angles!?
Posted by
@sb88
I've had an 'off the peg' road frame built in lugged, oversized 853. Minor adjustments made to fit 28-30mm tyres with standard drop brakes, but geometry kept same. So it's a summer bike for realistic riding on bad British roads.
However the seat tube angle is too steep for me, at 76 degrees for a 21 inch frame (53 and a bit cm square). I did one ride, couldn't get my seat far enough back and so measured it and then emailed: 76 degrees was confirmed by the maker.
At this angle way too much weight is on my hands, even with a 25mm setback post and saddle as far back as it will go. I can only get about 45mm setback max, whereas I could get up to 70mm on my other bikes, with the same saddle and post, and ride with about 60mm.
Every other road frame I've owned in this size has been 73-74.5 seat tube angle and proper setback easy to achieve. I have taken this up with the maker, who is insisting this is normal practice on a smaller frame to avoid toe overlap. I am aware that smaller frames often get a bit steeper but this seems ridiculous to me. I've not heard of a builder compromising position and handling so much just to avoid toe overlap.
I have/have had toe overlap on all of my road bikes and it's never been an big deal.
The ridiculous thing is I still have toe overlap on this frame, so the geometry has been compromised for nothing!
Angles are not published but when I called to enquire, was told 'standard road angles' or similar, and research on forums told me that I should be expecting a 74 ish degree seat tube angle. I would never have expected an angle steeper than 74.5. The only maker I can find steeper than that is Mercian, who make smaller sizes than 55cm in 75 degrees, but do point this out on their website. Other than that, I can't find another production or off the peg bike with a steeper angle than 74.5.
Even Mercian's 75 degrees would allow about another 1cm of setback.
What I can find is lots of information suggesting that building a frame with a steep seat angle to just to avoid toe overlap is a bad idea, plus gives a misleading reach to the bars - if you move the saddle back to the right place, that short top tube isn't so short any more!
I disagree that such a steep angle is normal and have confirmed this with a a few other builders, without naming and shaming the original maker.
My view is that something so untypical should be mentioned on order, especially as it's about the most critical part of whether a bike can be made to fit. I also don't think a customer should have to understand bike geometry intimately to make a purchase - I would expect that if I was buying a new toilet that was taller than 95% of other toilets, whatever the actual measurement, the vendor would tell me it was different to 95% of other toilets. Another buyer might have ridden it for 6 months, only to never get comfortable and stop riding it or go for a fit and discover the angles are unusual.
However I don't know if I've got the energy/time to keep arguing and whether this is going to be explainable to a 3rd party body if I decided to make a pursue it further. Ultimately though, I've saved up and sold a whole bunch of stuff to afford this, so can't afford to just leave it.
Any advice appreciated. Equally if you know anyone around 5ft 8 who likes a steep seat angle, it's probably going to have to get sold at a loss. I wonder if Mark Cavendish needs a new bike...