A.S. Gillott owners & appreciation club

Thanks for sharing, that was an enjoyable read and great restoration. And those cranks! How did you get on with the evaporust gel? I use the solution but the gel could be good on hub barrels (with alloy flanges). £100 too!

I like it to look at on someone else’s bike but I don’t want it :D

I’m thinking that French grey we were talking about...

The cranks and the whole bike are in great condition and it was clearly well loved by the original owner.

The evaporust gel is superb stuff.
It is very sticky and I've found the best way to apply it is with a toothbrush.
You then wash it off after 1-2 hrs and reapply a number of times and it rapidly takes care of the rust.

I've recently used some gel on my Maclean's project as the non drive side chain stay was starting to become quite badly rusted and didn't wish it to get any worse.
2-3 days of application and the results are very good -

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Haha. Fair enough..French Grey it is.

So went in to Argos today and had a look at the frame. I’ve pretty much decided to ask them to fix the existing top tube as best as possible rolling/squeezing and filling. Although it “won’t be perfect” I bet it will be hard to notice. New tube will be at least £100 more.

The gear cable pulleys can be made to work again, so I take it back, they’ll stay. I had thought they’d be painted in and not turn anymore.

I think I’ll keep the Campag shifter bosses but get them moved down the tube a bit and lined up better. The pro’s verdict was also that they are probably later editions. The alternative is just to get a pip on the underside to brace a shifter band against. The first frame I had refinished I ignored their advice to add a pip, didn’t tighten the shifter band enough and first proper ride it slipped down the tube gouging the paint and decals 😭

In the spirit of keeping costs down I think one colour enamel but lugs lined. The enamel should give a better finish on a well used frame than a flam, fill pits etc. a little better. I’m thinking French grey with white lining and a matt lacquer.

Ok great, will give it a go 👍

These are the TA water bottle boss braze-ons I have. Pretty tempted to add them as part of my contribution to the bike.

[N.B. I found my own comment about the seat post being original a little knobish. It’s all original as it’s what the fella I bought it from put on it over the years. Unless it was all put together recently :) Anyway I like that, think it’ll end up as similar but a little more aluminium a little less steel.]

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In the spirit of keeping costs down I think one colour enamel but lugs lined. The enamel should give a better finish on a well used frame than a flam, fill pits etc. a little better. I’m thinking French grey with white lining and a matt lacquer.

There may be a slight misconception here. The most important factor which causes blemishes in a paint finish to catch the eye is the level of gloss.

A flam is achieved by putting a tinted lacquer over a silver base coat and, quite often, applying a second coat of lacquer to enhance the gloss further and 'seal' any transfers. So you end up with something very glossy, which will show up any defects (rust pitting, crap in the paint) beautifully!

As a commercial stove enameller I would always try to steer customers away from full gloss finishes, or charge them more to allow for the higher reject rate. What we really liked was hammertone or texture.

Matt lacquer - don't forget 'mattness' is achieved by making the surface of the finish porous, so it will inevitably be hard to clean and less durable.

One possible compromise is to have a semi gloss enamel without lacquer, which can give an attractive ready made 'patina'. Two cautions here: 1. any transfers will not be sealed, 2. 'semi gloss' is not an exact term, you would need to be sure you were not going to get eggshell which would cause similar cleaning problems to matt lacquer. Ask to see a sample.

One other point while I'm here: those fork ends.

For what it's worth I have a Gillot which has exactly the same combination of old style on the front and Campag at the rear. My frame has seen a lot of use in its seventy years of life, and quite a bit of modification. I'm almost certain that my rear ends are repacements fitted in the eighties when the frame was used by a clubmate as a geared training bike.

I can't see a frame number on mine, and I guess that's because it was on the old fork end - have you found a frame number ? If there isn't one one the main frame, it probably was on the original rear fork end. There's probably a number on the steering tube, although I've never taken mine out to look.

P.S. I would certainly add those bottle cage bosses.

Thanks @clubman that largely agrees with what I was told by Mercian (I'm an Argos man but seemed right to get a Mercian painted at Mercian). That frame was lightly pitted and as well as what you say - the silver under-layer, gloss etc. showing up imperfections more clearly, I'm pretty sure they said they could do a thicker layer of enamel - which also helps. I may have mis-remembered. On the other hand Argos seem to have a way of filling that hides the pits, either that or I haven't had a sufficiently pitted one yet to notice :)

Re the matt lacquer, sorry I didn't elaborate fully - I've been tipped off that Argos do a more matt, or less glossy at least, than the high gloss standard version. I can neither confirm nor refute this tip yet, but I will keep you posted. Point taken re it being more porous / less durable. I did not know that was due to porosity!

I know others take abrasives to the gloss finish to knock it back a bit, but I don't fancy that. a) I'm too ocd; and 2) would probably chuff it up.

I'd want the lacquer over the transfers, so fingers crossed an enamel grey, wateslide transfers and a less glossy lacquer will be satisfactory!

The frame number on mine is on the bottom bracket and matches the steerer, identifying it as made in 1960. I think it moved from rear dropout to bottom bracket late 50s - sure exact year is on the classiclightweights site somewhere.

I had worried exactly that though, mine has been through a few overhauls already. The rear dropouts are nicely brazed in though I think, and similarly to the front. Although only so many ways to peel an onion.

resists searching for matching front dropouts on Ebay

Edit - I think all the lettering will be lost in this respray, and the front do look like the lower tier Campag offering. Who knows, maybe they are contempory!

My Gillot dates from about 1950, so that seems to fit with your info.

I certainly wouldn't bother to change the front fork ends.

Pitting - It's not difficult to fill rust pitting, but it takes a bit of patience and you need to have the frame back after shot blasting if you're going to do it yourself. I would use a two pack polyester filler (eg Plastic Padding) and flat first with 180 grit then 320. If some one had asked me to have a frame back to fill it in this way, I would have been perfectly happy to give him the frame coated with yellow etch (anti rust) and let him get on with it. I guess enamellers nowadays must be working on something like £50 -£75 an hour, so this sort of filling would be expensive.

Transfers - Waterslide transfers are not very durable. Gold size were the traditional type. There are various other types. If the transfers are going under stoved lacquer it is essential to know that they will take the heat without being ruined. One possibility is to hand paint over the transfers with air drying varnish

Gillott changed the position of the frame number in 1951 from both rear dropouts to underneath the BB. Consequently your frame number is in the correct position.
Looking at some similar frames on MS Flickr page I suspect your rear dropouts are original there is definitely no reason to suspect they are not.
As for the front dropouts, I'm not sure it does seem like a money saving excercise.

@clubman thanks for the info, I'll leave it to the professionals this time :)
@falconvitesse I think you are right, there are a lot of similarities with this bike https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/albums/72157673127814544/with/31237905546/ which is original paint and has matching rear dropouts. I can't quite see the front, but I don't think they're the same as mine, although I'm almost certain mine are original to my frame. No need to change them and no one will be looking / able to see them anyway!

I got my dates on the derailleurs slightly wrong previously - it's the rear derailleur that was introduced in 1963, the front was in the 1960 catalogue. The Record group in 1960 included the Gran Sport rear derailleur. Interesting that 1963 bike I linked to had Record derailleurs, steel seatpost and Gran Sport hubs - seems a good chance that is all original equipment on mine, maybe the Gran Sport rear derailleur was replaced with a Record later in the 60s. Or maybe it was all put together in the 80s :)

The rear derailleur cleaned up nicely, the jockey wheels aren't too bad under the grot, I'll post a pic!

Edit - pic added here, I did have a before one of it lurking in my paraffin tin but deleted it for some reason. Grease and mud and grass all caked around the jockey wheels, the exploded pic is after a few rounds in paraffin, scrubbing, taking it apart for another round in paraffin, scrubbing and just cleaned with washing up liquid. I put the chrome bits in an Evaporust bath for a day, then scrubbed and polished with Autosol and put on some frame wax as well to try and add a bit of protection. The only bad bit of chrome loss is on the rear plate and inside where the spring has rubbed the plate. All looks ok though after being given the above treatment.

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They don't stay clean for long with the roads in this condition. As for the orange tape I have no excuse.
The trouble is that this is the only, or the most practical bike I own so it does take a lot of obuse.

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Been loving riding the Gillott, very smooth. Angled the GB maes bars down a bit so the drops are level and they are very comfortable also got a longer post and doesn't feel as squished up. Pothole has put a dent in a rim though so might use this as an excuse for alu rims. How's your 1960 project going @veloham?

So this frame has been hanging around for a while now it was on the Gillott Facebook page and on Ebay but went unsold.
Why?

1. Well for one it was expensive.
   
2. All the paint had been stripped off. Suggesting damage or repairs.
   
3. The forks were oval to round (unusual for a bike with horizontal rear dropouts), coupled with this. was the fact that, there was no frame number in evidence on the steerer.
   
4. There were stories that the original owner had crashed it. (His name is printed on the rear dropouts). The frame came with lots of paperwork, magazine cutouts and race cards from the days of yore, but nothing specific, linking the bike with the paperwork or the cyclist.
   
5. The front nearside dropout had a crack in it.
   
   

Erh..! apart from that a great bike.!
I spoke to the eBay seller and told him there was a crack in the dropout, as it wasnt mentioned in the description.
He discontinued the auction and I would have left it at that, however inspired by a frame I had bought for a friend recently, which also had oval to round forks on a track/path frame and matching frame numbers I bought the Gillott.

A.S Gillott Spearpoint 946171
So built in 1946 and the 171st frame made by them since they opened in 1945

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Bill Phillbrook built. Right?

It’s been slightly on hold - frame is at Argos and has been stripped.

Not quite sure where to go from here. I’m pretty sure the dropouts are original; the shifter bosses are not and are in a slightly funny position - either move them down and aligned or remove and add a pip; top tube either replace or squeeze and fill to get as close to round as possible.

Paint I think single colour with lugs lined, currently thinking Ferrari red 😎 Seems quite common for Gillott’s of the period to be a single colour with contrast head tube. Also thinking about black - boring but always delivers and it was black when it reached me; possibly with off-white panels.

Urgh I love that bike. I saw the auction, watched it, looked again and it was gone.

Round forks was just a preference. I have a ~1960 Mercian Superlight (drilled for both brakes, track ends, round forks) and was looking at the catalogue currently listed on Ebay yesterday: oval or round forks as preferred.

Don’t round forks give greater lateral stiffness? Important when you’re pumping your guns and tossing the handlebars from side to side. [Which I’m often doing.] So common on track bikes but could easily be chosen for a path frame? And they look 👌

@veloham sounds cool not seen much of Argos painting but this red would be cool https://www.lfgss.com/comments/12052582/

@anidel should post his paint job in here as the green with the gold is well nice.

^cool having the name on the dropouts.

Very nice.
What are your plans for it?

Oh I haven't?

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Very nice be good to see built up.

yes it sure is those tangs on the seat lug give it away, according to Mark Stevens. I love the fuss free clean and straightforward design of the spearlugs.
So it arrived on Monday and I was very keen to see what I had bought.
Had it originally been a road frame, what was the story with the forks?
First up geometry, which was definitely track orientated, however the angles were not quite so acute and the slender chainstays and seat stays definitely suggest road racing, probably TT.
Huge rear dropouts and very tight clearances So much so that 27" rims wouldn't fit at all which is unusual for a bike of this age, so it's tubs all the way.
There were no sign of any braze ons either so although I'm no expert I was pretty sure it had been built specifically with horizontal dropouts in mind but was designed for road racing.
As for the forks I was sure they were also part of the original frame so started cleaning the steerer with polish etc looking for any sign of a frame number.

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