Labour Leadership 2016

Corbyn has no competition!!

I'm not sure what you mean by "labour would still need to be the biggest party, which means making big gains."

The biggest party is the party with the most MPs. For labour to gain MPs they have to win alot more votes.

Are you suggesting openly making deals with the Lib dems in the campaign? I worry that they might still be toxic, this could do more harm than good. Their rejection by the electorate a year ago was total.

I'm currently paying extortionate rates for Wifi in my shitty little flat that work have given me, so might go without internet for a while. Thanks, it's been good to debate this, it's important to have ones assumptions challenged.

Yes, so they need those 9.3 million, and more.

The PLP seem keen on jettisoning votes, rather than gaining. Scotland and the Working Class previously, now they seem keen to try to jettison the membership, CLPs, councillors and the unions with the coup against Corbyn.

The comedy coup will get better today if Angela Eagle is the PLP chosen one, someone who came fourth in the deputy leadership election last year.

Their [the Lib Dems] rejection by the electorate a year ago was total.

I guess the question is whether all of those bedwetters have now finally grasped the full extent of the calming influence they had while in coalition.

For me given the current fractures a "Unity" government of Lab / Lib / SNP is the way forward.

I'm also not 100% sure that in that case you need to worry about labour being the largest party. If you could take enough seats with a "Unity" government to give the Conservatives an unworkable majority then you could force them out politically - ei total media onslaught from all sides claiming they have clearly lost, vote of no confidence, etc.

I think if you had a united opposition coalition that told everyone post election with total confidence that the Torys had lost and they won and they would be taking government it would be bought.

I never used to mind the Lib Dems. Remember the Guardian gave them their backing, rather than Labour, for the 2010 election.

Well they are the party that closest represent my political beliefs. I have always been annoyed by the "oh but they'll never win" attitude, and positively furious at those voters who bailed over their failure to achieve all manifesto promises while being a minority in a coalition.

The reason I'm in this thread is to learn more and work out how to push back the hard right in politics. Right now a strong Labour Party seems to be the best route for that.

Lib Dems 2017 GE slogan:

"We're a force for good, see how evil the Tories have been without us"

Is there any use for NI people to join Labour youse think?

We have no Labour here atm, supposedly because of the SDLP (who are utter regressive due to their links with the Catholic Church but consistently anti-austerity).

But maybe I should. I am considering joining the NI Greens too.

Your eagle needs to fledge before it can fly.

I'm all over for Corbyn and I like him, my only worry is that he doesn't have enough charisma for winning a general election. He is not telegenic! No that I give a damn about, but...

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/30/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-for-death-of-princess-diana/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article (satire obv.)

:)

Word on the street is that Labour has sorta landed here (I did see a new group pop up which I gave 5th vote in our beautiful shopping list Single Transferable Vote (STV) system over in NI) but they didn't get permission to use proper branding/moniez.

Anyone able to get an update from Liz Kendall on the Budget surplus she was supporting:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/10/labours-liz-kendall-i-have-no-problem-aiming-for-budget-surplus

So do you believe in budget deficits?

Shame on her for trying to make Labour trusted on the economy so they can get elected again.

What a terrible idea.

You're falling into the austerity / trust trap. See it was means by which she advocated achieving a surplus which was the terrible idea.

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/289313/

The frank truth is the overwhelming majority of Labour members back Jeremy. And as far as facts go he certainly hasn't destroyed Labour. He's done ok for Labour at the ballot if you go by any of the recent by-elections, mayoral elections or the EU referendum.

The trouble is, the party needs someone who can win general elections, not do okay in local elections.

A few days on, which have really proved the adage a week is a long time in politics, I still think labour have an enormous problem and it goes far beyond corbyn.

The pre-existing coalition of post industrial northern England/Wales and London (and the smattering of places like it) are now utterly split. The referendum campaign brought out and reinforced underlying differences in view amongst these places of what the median voter wants from the country and labour.

An attempt to turn labour back into a blairite party will see places like Sunderland vote for ukip. Changing into a 1970s party against Europe and immigration will see the lib dems peel off middle class liberal voters in London.
But to win a general election labour needs both these groups of people AND people who didn't vote for it in 2015.

The status quo isn't tenable for labour but nor are the obvious alternatives.

The fact Corbyn isn't doing a great job as leader isn't helping but even if they could replace him with someone more charismatic and media savvy the bigger problem still faces the party on strategy.

I don't believe in 'cutting for growth'.
We saw in 2010-15 a supine PLP mutely gawp at every Tory speech to claim that 'Labour crashed the economy'. An unchallenged, repeated lie allowed lightweights like Kendall to believe being a pale imitation of the Tories would enhance Labour's prospects.
Austerity-lite was never a solution for overpriced housing or zhc minimum wage non-jobs.
It has never, (since WW2?), been cheaper the UK government to borrow.
Build HS3, Liverpool to Hull, to really connect the Northern Powerhouse,
invest for growth & jobs.

I think this is exactly what the Tories are going to do.
They like winning elections and now austerity is not going to be a win votes so that policy will be dumped.

The frank truth is the overwhelming majority of Labour members back Jeremy.

Got any evidence for that? Actually, has anyone done any polling?

The vox pops on TV/radio seem to have a lot of people saying they joined to back him but no longer back him.

I don't believe in 'cutting for growth'.

Neither do I. Neither does Liz Kendall, as far as I know?

I don't really understand why it's so contentious that the country should preferably not be running a massive overdraft in normal times. Surely that's clearly preferable?

My real point is that I'm not an economist and don't truly know whether it's a bad idea for the country to run an overdraft of up to £150 billion as it's difficult to get a straight answer on that, although on the face of it that doesn't seem like such a great plan.

But that's kind of the point - Labour lost public trust on the economy and a big part of that was because the public accepted Osborn's now established (if untrue) orthodoxy that Labour spent all the money and didn't fix the roof while the sun was shining.

His argument for a budgetary surplus - despite austerity and cuts to public services - was an easy one to make because it's such a relatable argument. If you've ever had a bank account and an overdraft you can understand it. I've been through a personal finance cycle a lot of people probably have - I started out massively overdrawn because I wasn't earning much, got paid more, slowly paid it off, built up a surplus to provide security for myself.

Even if the arguments for not maintaining a budgetary surplus are good it's difficult to argue against this premise because the public now have this analogy in their heads and it's not going away. So every time Labour attacks this policy they play into the hands of the Tories.

Also, it's lazy and a little insidious to attack fellow party members over this. Kendall's logic in making those comments was sound, if you don't like her, don't vote for her (presuming she stands again).

Saw this doing the rounds on social media
https://www.byline.com/column/11/article/1132
I thought it had a promising title but actually don't think it has much of worth to say. I'm kind of looking for something to convince me that Corbyn Must Go but haven't found anything persuasive yet. So many people think it, I still haven't 'got it'...