99.9% chance of Rourke.

I've had frames with similar stays from London builders in the sixties and seventies, at least from a London perspective, frame builders would work for different shops so styles weren't, that unique. I don't know if the same applies to Rouke..

That's good point, around that time there would have been a lot of similar frames being built up. The quality is really spot on, seems like the "truth" is out there.

Main point is the frame is of that era of that I'm sure unless it's a tarted up Create that's been shape shifting!

Probs been knocked then :-(

99.9% chance of Rourke....grr

More pictures sound help recognise this. Got more to share?

Btw these are images of a Holdsworth wrap over stays on a Professional (orange) and Rourke ones. I think it is not a Rourke?

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that is very true

Feel free to contact brian rourke cycles they are a helpful bunch and I'm sure have a record or system for the frame numbers under the bottom bracket. Anyway my nutter in put here is the construction of the wrap around stay on brian rourke cycles are flattened seat stays and not connected seat stay ends. Look at the difference. The blue on is the rourke

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This is a rourke, people are making fake rourke. To confusing things further brian rourke do refurbish frames and add there own decals but I doubt they would do that to a wrap around frame because of the potential similarity and miss understanding. Or forgeries. Case closed. On a sad note my beloved was stolen 2 years ago in Covent Garden.

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Here's a snapshot of the seat collar, I'm dubious that I've been told
some hardcore "porkies" about the frame from the source of purchase.

So this could still be Rourke or could not be Rourke? The other frames
pictured "look" better crafted, but hoping there's still slight chance, quite
doubtful now though as LFGSS word up against possible nonsense.

The seatpost size however is 27.2mm does it rule out 531 Reynolds?

I can also understand that without a serial number it's less credible.

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Does this arrangement predate yours that is pictured?

The frame doesn't have recessed brake holes. The fact that there are no serials on the frame seem bizarre now as I'm sure Rourke would have put something there unless it predates serial numbers, is this possible?

I find it straight up unlikely that its authenticity is Rourke now.

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It didn't look like this in the main picture in the first post. This one does indeed look like a Rourke to me!

Same period. Yes those frame builders around that time would have put out boutique frames this still could be one, of Rourke I'm not 100% convinced but it might be credible as without contacting Rourke it's unsure, but it's not holding a serial number that I can see though the paint that's been applied is covering if holding a serial number it's not visible as such.

Rourke or not still is gorgeous and will make someone pleased.

The wrapped stays don't quite fit the way Rourke did them on mine. As you say though, it looks to me to be a really nice frame!

When I was trying to find out about my Rourke, Jason has mentioned that it's possible that serial number wasn't placed on request. We struggled to read mine at the time.
Later on I found another one pressed on the steerer of a fork, as well as one confirming fork was 531.

So wrap round seat stays... any idea on this one? This seems like the place with a bit of knowledge about them.

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The rear triangle is setup at 116mm as well.
It's short of being 120mm by 2mm on each side.

And no visible stamping on dropouts, no branding.

Most frames built in reynolds 531 have a 27.2 seat tube although not all bikes with a 27.2 seat tube are reynolds 531 if that helps ;-)

As you say Rourke or not it's not a bad price for the frame, just worth keeping in mind that with a 116mm rear triangle it might be a stretch to cold set it to 130mm for a modern rear wheel. Although happy to be corrected on that if others think it's not an issue..

Doesn't look like a Rourke to me - All of mine look the same and this looks a bit too industrial

It's been taken and buyer was certain it was. He owned already
one almost the same, apparently if was made custom it wasn't stamped
with serial. Yes we had doubts as well but it turns out it was Rourke.

Yes/no about the genuine thing but we believe it's genuine.

I have four... 1985,1987,1995 and 2016 and the wrap over is the same on them all. Your buyer may have been certain but I am certain he is mistaken. That wrap over is not right

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I thought this discussion was done, but as a fellow Rourke rider I concur. It's a nice looking frame, but not a Rourke. The stay wrap over is wrong. All Rourkes are custom made. Personally, I have never known one not to have a serial number.

http://www.rourke.biz/custom_framesets.php