EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Sovereignity innit?

I think people cannot accept you get good (like this) with bad (some nasty shit the EU has done) and think their own countries are perfect. Plenty of UK nasty shit going on too and money waste/corruption.

Though negotiation with that many parties {whole EU} is always going to be a PITA :)

Oh and of course "We can vote our own leaders in/out".

Yes, but they clearly won't fix your issues, the UK has had problems for decades that are blamed on the EU. Now we see the human rights act being scrapped, paralympics athletes have their mobility car taken. Ladies and gentlemen: YOUR government.

Perhaps a silver lining is that there will be more engagement now, but we don't know until 2020.

Oh and of course "We can vote our own leaders in/out".

Like our MEPs I believe - under some kind of Proportional Representation too.

There was a good programme on R4 discussing the campaign for the referendum.

One ah-ha point they made was that essentially no one was PRO EU - in the sense of really loving it. Most people just recognise that on balance it provides a lot of positives.

Some people I know on FB are very pro-EU.

I guess more it's a balance thing. Like own governments then.

A much more left wing EU is on my wishlist. But that requires an alternative to the bank power/IMF cash and that's going to be tricky. Perhaps it's all a red herring, and the banks and IMF are ultimately the problem. No democratic control usually.

Indeed.

But what about the European Commission... :P

The guests on the programme put it better than I have obvs.

Also when you take a more balanced, liberal view you will always loose out to the militant right / left arguments.

They usually have the luxury of simplicity.

Amen to that... it's easier to sell simplicity.

"take back control".

Great slogan, like "just do it" :P

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/31/people-who-felt-marginalised-drove-brexit-vote-study-finds

This just seams to confirm all my assumptions about brexit voters, well other than the obvious.

This just seams

It was a stitch-up?

( #inb4schick )

Knitwit!

I'm not sure we can fully trust these facile analyses of the fabric of society. This kind of approach has been a common thread in comments on the referendum pretty much since June 24th and the papers just keep spooling it off. I'm sure it needles a lot of people to constantly be told that they were just misinformed and using the 'wrong' (the only available) vote to register their protest.

Perhaps, but then what is the way to put this?

People leave the EU to get something they want. It looks nobody is going to get what they want in the end.

This vote may scare the EU into fixing some issues though...

Here's someone weaving another story from this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/31/faceless-eu-bureaucrats-tories-corporate-cronies-margrethe-vestager-apple-brexit

^

That came up as well during the referendum info drive, with some sources saying if the UK goes it alone it has a lot less power to resist tax dodging and dodgy banking.

Ultimately the ruling party would attempt implement what they fancy on brexit, regardless of promises of a pot of gold at the end ;)

Hahaha it's curtains for Team GB.. Let's not beat around the preverbial loom of doom..

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/newsletter/news/projects-on-hold-enquiries-down-aj-survey-reveals-how-brexit-is-hitting-workloads/10010253.article?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AJ_EditorialNewsletters.Reg:%20Send%20-%20Daily%20bulletin&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTVRreU9HVTBaRGRsWVdJMCIsInQiOiJVTW9jcUIyYkhFdEp6aXhBT2VXb2pIbE1kdFo3cmpXQzBDOEN4eDlDV1Q1MERBTUlYQ0dBbThVRFJkY242UWNKeDIyT2tzc0xPTnVnZnVCeVpqT0dnQ210cnJuakVSaUJSVmJUWWtnczBGOD0ifQ%3D%3D

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/02/theresa-may-bleak-future-outside-single-market-eu-trade

Thoughts? It is going to be that bad?

Basically yes. Our access to the single market is destined to tank, which will hurt us for at least a decade and probably longer. The only hope is that if the rest of the EU disolves but that will take a long time and, at the end of the day, won't provide the economic benefits of managed trade agreements that we have now.

But if the EU dissolves, then how exactly is this "hope"? It means then that the EU market is open again? :)

If there's no collective, we can't be excluded from it.

Welcome to the 1930s

(I'm saying it in that half Scots, half English kind of 1930s brogue that Harry Enfield does so poorly.)

You can’t be in the single market without free movement, so if the UK forsakes free movement, in what sense can it still access the single market?

Is that definitely true?

Is it not possible to have access to the single market, without being a member?

Another point that I thought was interesting (if true) is that the UK will effectively have passporting rights once MiFid II comes in as anyone with EU equivalent legislation will have them.

I struggle to believe that even our woefully inept politicians and civil servants will sign off a deal that doesn't involve single market access.

Its a tough gig for the political establishment thought.

Majority basically wants less foreigners, regulations and autonomy regardless of the consequences.

Norway isn't a member but has access to the single market. They have to accept free movement as part of that access, as well as having to contribute to the EU budget and accept EU laws.

Switzerland are currently negotiating a new deal and the free movement of people is a sticking point, which could threaten the entire deal.

Majority basically wants less foreigners, regulations and autonomy regardless of the consequences.

I guess you mean more autonomy?