EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I prefer somebody with no principles / high ideals atm in the Tories...they can be bribed/cajoled/flattered/sometimes reasoned with. So BJ may be the least of a bad bunch.

And the ones that just want to watch the world burn, but not their world ;)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/28/bong_eu_reentry_plan/

Not bad everyone gets in the teeth. (satire)

In the national interest, I hope it is Theresa May.

Even though she's a cyborg sent from the future?

I'm still angry. And depressed that the regressive, insular, xenophobic aspects of this country have chosen to fuck-over the younger generations for years to come.

This should never have even been an option. And the reason it came about? Oh yeah, arguing over the bill when Greece were in trouble in 2011.

Fuck this place and the 51.9% of cunts that inhabit it.

If you're young and/or have something to offer, my advice is to get out and contribute to a less shitty country before you get tied down with life. Let this place quietly become irrelevant and "give it back" to the people who want it so badly.

I've just emailed my MP (euro-sceptic and chair of the PLP, yet hard-left) John Cryer asking him what his position on a progressive alliance is, and asking him to seriously consider it.

I'm not sure if it will have an impact, but if he responds honestly it will, at least, give me some sense of the possibility of such a thing.

If he doesn't support it, but Corbyn does, there is still a chance.

U wot m8?

my advice is to get out and contribute to a less shitty country before you get tied down with life

Extra advice: Do it very quickly.

The option to live and work in Europe will disappear very soon. If you want to keep your life open, you should be looking to live in Europe as soon as you can, drag your heels to a 5 year stay, and then naturalise and get citizenship somewhere so that you have 2 passports and your life is open for you to enjoy anywhere, with the full possibilities that offers you.

Running away rarely solves anything. Better to stay, engage with people and try and change things.

I would normally agree with you but at this point I'm still at the rage-quitting stage.

It gets a bit complicated having a flat and a partner who is less motivated to GTFO as quickly as possible - otherwise the flight would have been booked already.

Anybody looking advice on The Netherlands, ask me.

As for running away, I understand it. I've just been used as a political football (EU immigrant) and the UK has declined in things like social mobility. The 20 year outlook is IMHO not good and it's just fucked up NI investment (we were struggling already but slowly maybe getting there) and our 20 year outlook.

Engagement IS possible but it's an extremely slow process. We are still dealing with 1870s attitudes in NI, same-sex marriage and abortion access will come but it's another 40 years. There's a limit to patience, and mine is winding down too.

The islander mentality is still strong too in some areas.

Now of course you can move to a more progressive area in the UK.

Haha :D

The Netherlands sounds good... What are the job prospects like for an english speaking (but will learn anything pretty quickly) graphic designer over there?

Looking at near-by countries as it would not totally alienate parents/friends.

English isn't an issue. Graphic Design I am not sure... :/
I know people in IT only. I can only refer to t'internet.

You have to keep in mind taxes are higher, and you have to pay for national health insurance. Bike theft and vandalism are worse (sorry!). Bear in mind Amsterdam not like the whole Netherlands either. Most jobs will be in the "randstad" area so you may have to commute by train.

On the upside, roads are better, trains are better, unless you are in Amsterdam it's not crowded and things are just...tidier. You are also close to Germany, France, Belgium, and the tv is mostly English and you can learn from subtitles.

Do read some expat sites we do some annoying things I never realized ever :):)
And apologies we also have racist arseholes that now want an exit. Sigh.

Mrs Gove, who looks a bit like Gerard Depardieu in drag

Granted she sounds pretty nasty, but this sort of comment really doesn't help anyone does it?

I'm going to be aiming for France or Spain just because the language aspect is easier for me, would happily go to Canada or further afield too.

I've always been keen to quit the UK but the 'stay and try to undo a few millenia of ingrained entitlement and self-interest' sounded unappealing before Brexit and sounds ridiculous now. The UK has a history of being ruled by ermine-clad nutjobs and all we're seeing is a reversion to type.

PM Gove, Johnson, May or Cunt. Wow, what a choice. All four are abject examples of the neo-liberal race to the bottom that places profit before society and only sees a use for law and rights if it makes it easier to put the peasants where they belong.

Amsterdam is where CloudFlare are considering for the new office.

If that happens, I'm seriously going to consider moving to Amsterdam.

Press conference is about to start.

Vote BoJo

Good info, thanks. I'll do some reading.

Also, you get racist arseholes everywhere...

This is as boring as, and even more unhelpful than, the music conversation.

For me, moving is more about the ECHR.

I don't want to live in a country that doesn't have it. And it's pretty incredible that the Tories want to scrap it given that the British wrote the thing, and the author was a Tory too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Maxwell_Fyfe,_1st_Earl_of_Kilmuir

As for the idea that I've gone from poverty when young, sleeping rough in late teens, and finally have a good career and that the UK tech industry is now going to face decades of regression whilst Berlin grows (and Amsterdam and Barcelona follow behind)... well, I'd rather have a future of growth than stagnation.

I spent the last 2 weeks waiting for the referendum to decide whether to apply for a good job in the retail sector with a company I really like, it'd be a promotion, but it's well within my capabilities and comfort zone.

But the prospect of deflation, it being a UK specific company selling luxury items, combined with the loss of security that being employed by a global company provides... this means that the outcome of the referendum means that even though I would love the job and was already thinking of how I could really make a big splash and do a lot of good work there... that now I'm not even going to apply for it.

Staying with a role that is less challenging, but very secure long-term as we have a massive and diverse range of customers across the globe and many verticals, as well as having a very good and stable salary as well as equity in USD, plus with the possibility of either an EU or US move. It's a no-brainer.

And apologies we also have racist arseholes that now want an exit. Sigh.

luckily the parliament vote on this proposal was 138 against, 12 in favour

May = PM
Gove = takes Leave vote, noble loser, gets For Sec / some major role in overseeing Brexit.

The UK damage can be undone, if, so use stereotypes the Guardian readers go and take some interest in what caused this, the people bitching about them don't kick them out but have a genuine conversation, the population asks for genuine reforms in voting and banking, and so on.

It's not easy, it's not fun, some people will always think I'm "not one of them" and be shits. Changing minds is near impossible, so you need to work on bare facts, like monies, jobs, opportunities and that's frigging hard even as somebody will make a moronic demand and you are up against a whole establishment.

Scotland has managed to have an inclusive nationalism (though EU minded) and more social policies. But that doesn't come from nil. It's been building for decades.

Basically think of the biggest pain in the ass project you ever had, multiply by 65 million and take a tiny piece of the work :P It CAN be done. It's just for the very patient and very organized...