EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

But! Bear in mind that Brexit is a self evident, titanic success. Whilst at the same time not being actual Brexit, and having been ruined by remainers.

Like all the immigrants who are indolent lazy benefit-scrounging layabouts while at the same time stealing all the jobs?

Indeed.

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When we work lower wage jobs these are"low skilled" when Brits do "British jobs for British people" 😁

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/11/boris-johnson-refuses-calls-for-summit-on-violence-in-northern-ireland

Cha, I fear we don't have a big enough fridge to hide in. Might need a safe if he fancies visiting Shankill / Tiger's Bay 😁

My feeling is that Johnson believes that he can stomach more violence in NI than Brussels can, and that by holding his nerve whilst NI burns eventually the EU will act to save the lives that Johnson will not - and move the border from GB- NI to between Ireland and the r-EU.

The rioting in NI plays into Johnsons hands as he can blame it on the EU, whereas the move he needs to make (most) to calm things down is to align for SPS, allowing a dramatic reduction in restrictions to (and checks on) trade between GB-NI. But the nutters in the ERG will skin him if he does that, and it would torpedo the UK-USA deal because it would stop Johnson agreeing to their food rules.

There's no electoral upside to Johnson making any move to reduce the violence that I can see, and if it ultimately leads to a border poll and NI is "taken off his hands" then I suspect his base will be happy with that. Maybe happy in a way that they won't be with regards to Scotland - unsure how losing that nation will play out with the Brexists, I think that they count Scotland as a possession in a way that they don't of NI.

Just to give you some idea of the rioting. It is not the rioting we have had in the dark past, it is youths getting a kick out of fighting the police. Previously, guns appeared etc and riots were started to bring security forces into danger with elaborate bombs etc. This is ‘youthful exuberance’ in comparison. It’s not nice and in no way do I support it but it is nowhere near the wide scale madness we have had in the past. Google Drumcree or Day of Action etc. That was widespread throughout all of the province.

Edit. Someone mentioned the return of the Troubles. This link may give you an idea of what that was like and it’s not pleasant - unpleasant enough to be very unlikely.

https://flashbak.com/northern-ireland-troubles-1971-belfast-in-50-photos-1445/

The less serious it is (relatively) the more it plays to Johnson's base. And he's insulated - the only thing his base will really care about is violence returning to the mainland, and I'd think (but am prepared to be told I'm wrong) that the loyalist side are unlikely to run a campaign of that nature.

Also means that Johnson will have no reservations about provoking more riots if they're essentially football violence.

It's scallies, bored, with fuck all to do, being wound up by their uncles and their dad's tales of "when they smashed the 'ra"/ "when they smashed the Brits"

Johnson is ignoring it because it's the working class. It's text book.
If anything comes over the Irish sea doubt it'll be bombing, it'll be the Fans of rangers, Celtic, sunderland, Stoke starting similar kick offs.

Without having first hand contact with the rioters it’s hard to know the motivation. We have had disturbances like this before and will have again. The current ‘reasons’ given - Brexit, sea border, drugs raids are relatively new. Previously, no reasons were really needed - recreational rioting is the normal term for it. The weather hasn’t been too bad and schools are off - recipe of this behaviour. I would hope there is nothing more than that in the long term. Schools go back on Monday so we will see how next week is.
Also, just to throw it into the mix, a new ‘craze’ has started here over the past year - organised fights. Arranged on social media and usually between groups aligned to religion - which can also mean groups from particular areas here. The violence over the past week may be an escalation of that - and then stick the police in the middle.
If nothing, this country is a disaster - politicians call for calm - the rioters aren’t old enough to vote! One thing which could start more major trouble would be a death of a participant - then tit for tat could happen so fingers crossed we avoid that.

Unionist do feel betrayed and they are. Sure stupid to vote for it, but with FPTP in many areas UUP isn't an option, so back to getting done by the DUP. (Who are going lose lots of votes next election)

Riots or not, I really rather see the English government fulfilling the legal requirements of the Irish sea border so that it can be softened more.

And taking unionist people's concerns serious, more bitterness may not mean more bombs, but we pay the cost in political infighting and sectarianism.

Be nice if stormont pulls the finger out on housing and jobs for the riot areas...not always the most active there unfortunately.

Like every wedge issue in the world it has clearly been amplified by Facebook/social media and... Russia? Or someone.

I've been seeing pro-IRA memes in my own Facebook feed for several years and I don't even live there

To give you an idea of what’s going on - this is a video from Friday night.

https://youtu.be/1fdSda26O04

And oddly, or maybe not so oddly, it’s a Russian camera man.

Lots of footage from locals on twitter and Reddit...no need to invoke Putin :p

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56708430

^ Adults egging on teenagers amounting to child abuse.

In the Belfast Tigers bay area one teenager died many years ago when the petrol bomb handed to him exploded.

Unionist do feel betrayed and they are

Betrayed by whom, exactly? Given the DUP campaigned for Brexit, and propped up May to deliver her version of Brexit, the question one has to ask, is what exactly did you think you were going to get?

The Tories, despite their official name, don't give a shit about Northern Ireland and, as long as any violence is contained to the six counties, never will. Only if the violence spills over to the (English) mainland will they care.

Not wanting to stick my oar in too much, but the DUP especially are a party of grievance and victimhood. They have no vision, no actual policies, just a self-fuelled sense of grievance that they use to stoke the fears of the protestant working class.

It's scallies

"Spides" thankyouverymuch

Yeah them too!

Though I’d agree, there’s also the added problem of many developers not wanting to get involved in projects in Protestant areas because of the protection rackets and the “dues” they’ve to pay.

They still got used as identity runs deep.

You are right about the dup but the backstop was widely supported. By DUP voters...

I'm not saying people that voted Brexit are 💯 of the hook, but the orange Vs green voting combined with FPTP and unionists identity always meant it would link to Brexit more.

Easy way to get some votes. I think a bit less of "you voted for it" a bit more of "you got used" may be needed.

Now any that still vote DUP or TUV, sorry can't help them ;)

Not sure that's gone in nationalist areas, drug dealing us very much a problem there as well.

It's a council house / low income area problem as of course people move out if they can.

But some areas have improved by the hard work of small charities, like Donegal road and new housing got built.

(They gone done by the developer on the promise of social housing though...)

It took ages to get that and there are still many houses bricked up. Putting money in the hands of such charities would help, Stormont isn't giving that that much.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/12/uk-eu-technical-talks-brexit-northern-ireland?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Perhaps some positive movement on sea border checks, but nothing signed yes.

Perhaps some positive movement on sea border checks, but nothing signed yes.

Wouldn't that just mean that instead of nationalist rioting we'd get unionist rioting?

? :)

It's the unionists areas that been affected by riots.

SF / sdlp are against Brexit, but accept the NI protocol and want it to improve. Same for Alliance and Green party.