EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I'm not sure how I ended up defending Englishness really I'm much more no Nations no borders in thought. I never call myself English either but I'm not going to disavow where I'm born because because of some prejudiced view of everyone outside of my locality is done kind of gammony hooligan, but everyone a bit further afield is much more like me. Extend the same courtesy to those who live in the rest of this generally quite nice overall little island to those who want to move here from elsewhere. Extend the same disdain to the awful people who live inside the M25 as those outside, there's plenty on both sides.

@Dramatic_Hammer
this one.. what's wrong with corduroy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eusOPQotliw

The home office is immigrant bullying, hostile environment, structurally racist and has been been for well over a decade.

Many leave campaigns were also xenophobic. And Boris and may can fuck off with their shitty remarks and removing of rights for EU immigrants like me and the Brits abroad.

That doesn't mean the UK does not have many successes when it comes to immigrants and living together as a society.

There's this tension in that sense between how people are as a society and his the government voted in via the Tories the past decade behaves.

Identity is always vague, ask people what Dutch identity is and you probably get many different answers as well.

Northern Ireland had to adopt a multi identity model (which ignores the "others") with the good Friday agreement but within unionists and nationalists you will also see disagreement on what Irishness / Britishness means once you get past the "who do you want to rule" NI question.

I appreciate people find certain connotations of "British" or "English" problematic but in honesty even if you say you "belong" to London before the UK, London has a good slice of those people you find problematic too and the stuff we all like about London comes in part at least due to practices and trades we really don't like. Without the wealth from plundering the resources of the world in centuries past, most of Europe and North America would be extremely different places.

Bad comes with good most of the time.

It makes you more British obviously. You won the quiz, you paid the fee and you have sworn allegiance unlike those queue jumpers that were just born here. Most of them probably
wouldn't even qualify for residence due to the minimum income threshold.
I haven't really put any thought into it just went through the motions. The British citizenship
doesn't add much value beyond solving a local bureaucratic hassle.

Voting and not being subject to immigration controls if I ever have to be abroad for long to support my parents made it worth it for me.

Also can't help but not being 💯 trusting even though EUSS is legally fine.

No pleasing the cap doffing brigade and the "take care of our own people first" and "we are not racist but Corbyn is a anti Semite" brigade anyway.

People accept you or don't I shall have to try to be "a better Brit" ;)

I reluctantly have to accept idiots in London who wholly believe in Brexit including in my family, I just don’t engage with them. Also my opinion in the rest of the country amounts to a big fat zero. I’d like to see regional governance though, not being dictated to by Whitehall officials.

Also can't help but not being 💯 trusting even though EUSS is legally fine.

So was the Windrush.

EuSs gives you indefinitely leave to remain. If you have it on time...

The big issue is the deadline, and the lack of removing that will lead to a windrush V2.

Some people are in denial, some don't know, some are homeless, some in care, some think being married to a Brit grants them EuSs...

Of course Boris was just fine not fixing that in 2019...80 seat middle finger.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu

So now Boris is seeing sense on the level playing field. That seems to support the idea he does want a deal just not sure how to sell it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkOHtniTts

It's squeaky bum time.. Any deal was always going to be at the very last minute.

Brinkman Boris. I imagine we're going to be looking at some extreeeeemely pissed off hard-line leavers to nicely counterpoint our still-reeling what we're really leaving?? remainers.

Obvs I'm not engaging with your argument :)

It's actually just saving energy. You might be right or wrong, I'm not going to work with you to find out. Nothing or next to nothing leads to 2 possible conclusions, so I disagree with you but it's not on me to prove it, that's your job. Good luck..

Yep that's what others said.

It's just pure stupidity businesses don't know what to prepare for at this very late stage.

IT systems and processes aren't fully ready yet either, there aren't enough new customs agents hired.. . Many eu countries are much more prepared.

And now it's going backwards on fishing again... 🙄

Chaotic first few months of 2021 incoming.

Will it still be blue underwater?

Now we know what the 'p' stands for. Of course.

I've become very fond of the Mute/Block features in my Twitter client, of late. Throw down some truth and then immediately block them. Then picture them sitting there in a frothy rage unable to do fuck all about it.

Yes but it'll look muddy brown, like the oven ready deal ;)

Speaking of muddy brown, anyone got recipes and nutrition information for mud pies? Might need this for myfitnesspal after Dec 31.

Man, I've not listened to ADF since high school. Time for a rabbit hole.

Also my opinion in the rest of the country amounts to a big fat zero.

which opinion specifically? remain? i mean, it means as much in the rest of the country as it does in london, which is effectively fuck all. same as for any person from any part of the UK who voted remain.

I bet they pine for the days when it was just stone-picking.

HS2 is a good example.
In the 1990's there was a proposal to resurrect the 'Grand Central Railway',
broadly Sheffield to London Marylebone, ignoring the fact that the previous trackway had been converted to roads in some places, (Chesterfield?), and huge viaducts, (Brackley?), had been demolished.
This proposal failed, but some bright spark realised that functionality was insufficient to enthuse. They recruited, amongst others, Lord Adonis, and employed only lobbyists.
It was transformed into HS2, but not just a fast train line, but THE fastest train line in the UK, ignoring the practicality of the InterCity 125s that had served the GWR from 1976 onwards.
After the lobbyists, it was economists with a smokescreen of potential benefits.
By then it was unstoppable, and now we have an open ended commitment to build an out of date transportation system 10 years, (and counting) too late.

Obvs I'm not engaging with your argument :)

It's actually just saving energy. You might be right or wrong, I'm not going to work with you to find out. Nothing or next to nothing leads to 2 possible conclusions, so I disagree with you but it's not on me to prove it, that's your job. Good luck..

Fair enough. I still think it's slightly depressing if intellectual arrogance is now something to boast about rather than try to avoid. It also does rather beg the question of why you're bothing to read a public forum in the first place. Unless you're merely looking for a self-reinforcing echo chamber.

I think you're reading too much into it and in the wrong way.