EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Its also a lot less pithy as a soundbite than "those dirty forrins", and would require leg work on the part of the politician, and also awareness that there is a degree of culpability with the voter, which never goes down well

Has anyone stopped to consider that the people who aren't voting Labour any more are not biologically disposed to be Labour?

What does that even mean?

The tories were split down the middle on the issue, Labour needed to capitalise more on that. That does not mean I don't blame Cameron for calling the fucking thing in the first place, and Johnson for lying and pandering to prejudice.

Labour's dramatic loss of support came down to the Iraq war, Gordon Brown's pathetic attempt to be PM without a mandate, the myths around his causing the financial crash, and a natural desire for change after three terms of labour in office. These should not be insurmountable issues for a unifying Labour leader.

typo for idealogically ?

It means people have this assumption that poor working class people in the North and Wales are natural Labour supporters and whenever they don't support Labour it's Labour's fault, or they are just too stupid to realize that they're not voting the way they naturally should vote.

Isn't this a junta by the Neoliberal wing of the Labour party? Do they want to have some technocratically-friendly leader in for when the EU come charging over the hill to save them?

Jog on, pals; the same populace that voted 52% furreins out aren't going to vote for some smooth-faced falafel-eating guy in a suit.

Labour's dramatic loss of support came down to the Iraq war, Gordon Brown's pathetic attempt to be PM without a mandate, the myths around his causing the financial crash, and a natural desire for change after three terms of labour in office. These should not be insurmountable issues for a unifying Labour leader.

Re-read this. You are fucking mad if you think Corbyn, who hasn't even been leader for a year, is going to overcome all the things you listed in the face of a hostile media, world of austerity, and post-truth political climate.

in the face of a hostile media, world of austerity, and post-truth political climate.

He's also up against the parliamentary Labour party, who can't get behind someone who has written off as right-wing the most electorally successful Labour leadership in history. It's possible to hate Blair, and I do hate Blair, but also recognise that period of success, and work with those elements of the party who were part of it.

I agree too. But I see only the lefter partied willing to tackle that...by giving condems a hand I'm not sure how you help yourself :)

I think it's all a part of the UK having the least productive workers in Europe - which I suspect (but have no evidence) is based on our workers being cheap, therefore there is no real motivation to make them more efficient - spend £200,000 on improving process/workflow/tooling, or hire 10 temporary staff on zero hours contracts and bin them when the demand dies down?

Pining for the heady days of electoral success in the 90s is not a plan. It is nostalgia. The world is different now and the Blairites can't seem to grasp that. The political spectrum is so much more fragmented. Moving slightly to the centre to try to pick up votes from the right is not a legitimate way of getting elected.

The issues with empoverished areas years after the mines closed persist in Belgium also. That is at least not UK only.

Neither is the xenophobia and politics with no answer and pointing at "foreigners!!!!" to get votes. Works every time.

Pining for the heady days of electoral success in the 90s is not a plan

I agree, I'm not saying we need a new Blair. But writing it off entirely and starting from scratch is not a plan either for such a large, established party. Would you force de-selection for all MPs you consider Blairite, and replace with those in favour of Corbyn?

I'm not writing anything off. I'm attacking people who are manufacturing a narrative in which Corbyn lost the referendum while ignoring facts.

This is a faction within Labour seeing their moment to do what they have wanted to do since the leadership election.

And we've gone full Godwin.

Given the length of the thread, it's only happened now, so not too bad. Things improving.

Would you force de-selection for all MPs you consider Blairite, and replace with those in favour of Corbyn?

Why not? Lets see what a united party could do.

I'm not writing anything off.

That's good. Corbyn, Mcdonnell and the Momentum movement could use a bit of your open mindedness.

Northern Ireland has a relatively new socialist party "people before profit" which did well.

They're the Socialist Workers Party with a different wrapper on. They also get in because the electoral system is different, which single member FPP constituencies will never permit.

Less than a week to Chilcott. His timing really is a marvel.

Eamonn McCann is indeed old SWP, Gerry is a new face.

But I didn't know the FPP would be so much hassle. At least one thing NI is doing right is the representational voting system... now to rid us of the stupid petition of concern and the DUP <-- not sure I live long enough to see that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-leader-brexit-labour-rebels-sabotage

Just got back from Sainsbury's, a foreign couple in front of me. The cashier asks if he can help to pack their bags

Fuck me, let the dust settle a bit first mate

excellent!

Ha.

(Ha at pisti)