EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Unless they win the upcoming GE, when they’re a Brexit party again.

Was just about to say this, so basically being incredibly clear in how unclear they really are, waste of time, don't vote labour if you want labour to support staying in the EU, I think, from what I can gather!

Labour won't win the next GE. Not on a manifesto of being pro-Brexit (albeit their own form of deal, which arguably they can't get).

Solid campaign material for their MPs. If you want to stay in the EU, vote for us to win the next GE. If we win, we'll leave the EU...

its pretty simple isn't it? they're offering a 2nd vote whatever happens right, whoever makes the deal?
now its up to the people who want to remain to convince those that want to leave, like they should have done to start off with, rather than just assuming they'd win.

What will make the Labour Brexit so good that its better than Remain, but leaves the Tory Brexit worse than Remain?

I don't know, they haven't negotiated it yet.
I doubt it will be any better. But they have to have a go, that's the compromise.
The electorate isn't likely to be 50% people that want to revert to the status quo.
This is just like when Gordon Brown said we might join the Euro if was a better option, and it wasn't, so we didn't.

I guess they'll say staying in a customs union.

With LFGSS being one big echo chamber it's often glossed over that a very large number of people still want to leave, even after all the shit that has happened.

I think they are currently offering pushing a confirmatory vote on a Tory deal, not clear if they would offer the same with a deal they would get if they won a GE and could get round the table with the EU.

Ah OK, I think I saw that he said 'Any UK Prime Minister must have enough faith in their proposal to be able to put it to a public vote' but I might be mistaken.

That would be a pretty solid line to put out there, however, doesn't seem to be the way of the Corbyn rebel alliance :(

Totally ignores the EU, who have said again and again and again that the deal has been negotiated- and is not open to re-negotiation.

So Labours deal would be identical to the “bad Tory deal”, to think otherwise assumes that Corbyn would be able to tell the EU 27 what to do- which I submit is unlikely.

i may have read this through my rose tinted spectacles:

Whoever becomes the new Prime Minister should have the confidence to
put their deal, or No Deal, back to the people in a public vote.

But as you suggest, its not the iron guarantee I wanted!

Whoever becomes the new Prime Minister should have the confidence to

put their deal, or No Deal, back to the people in a public vote.

That looks like the sort of thing that, post GE, could morph into a

With the mandate supplied to us by the British Public we will "insert Brexit flavour here"

My understanding - Labour will try get a better deal, but whether any deal be good, bad, indifferent or exactly the same, it will go on a referendum alongside remain. Is this wrong? If not, why is it a bad thing?

Is this wrong?

It's not obvious to me. That's their explicit position when a 'Tory Brexit' is on offer; i.e. when they're not in govt.
From what I've seen they're less explicit when they're in power - I suspect that they'd take an election win as a mandate to go ahead with their interpretation of Brexit and not necessarily with a referendum.

I suspect that they'd take an election win as a mandate to go ahead with their interpretation of Brexit and not necessarily with a referendum.

What makes you suspect this?

Also a Dyson avoider due to Brexit. Vax Blade Ultra for the 40 volt win!!!!!!

My understanding - Labour will try get a better deal, but whether any deal be good, bad, indifferent or exactly the same, it will go on a referendum alongside remain. Is this wrong? If not, why is it a bad thing?

My understanding, from listening to the radio so may be somewhat out of date, is that Corbyn has laid out his policy for no deal and the current "bad Tory deal", but he's said nothing about what Labour is committed to do if they win a GE.

Which means that unless and until he does bring clarity to that the current (stated) best chance of a referendum is to hope that a Tory minority government struggles on.

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It was reported yesterday that in the event of a Labour gov there would still be a ref. but the question would be: Labour Deal vs Remain (with no no-deal option).

https://twitter.com/hashtag/OppressedByTheEU?src=hash&fbclid=IwAR2BPxPISxyKf4zv1HXbcAC4_jUor5SsBB1eXdQWzQnrHPOwlz7ODE2HHr0

some gentle twitter irony with hashtag #surpressedbytheeu mentioning all the benefits (freedom of movement, health insurance covered, lower uni fees, no minimum income rules when you go somewhere for a job, Erasmus, etc etc) for the hard of hearing.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/15/eu-migrants-43bn-contribution-to-uk-should-be-spent-on-poor

I'm not really sure what to think of this, as it still split immigrants (like me) into a "special" category, how about...those areas get funds anyway.

And how about we are all human give the tax cash I pay to people that need it, that's what its for! Do they really think immigrants think "hm yeah dunno I don't want to pay tax that goes to these Brits/NI ones".

On the other hand it -may- defuse the constant anti immigration rhetoric, which should have been fought from the start, but perhaps this is the imperfect solution for an imperfect world that is needed.

The UK is positive about immigration atm it seems 2 years of hearing stories about refugees/EU immigrants stuck with Brexit/the unfair income rules for spouses from non EU countries etc have changed people's minds.

So good news, just annoying Westminster seems to be slow to pick it up.

Ha.

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More upstanding behaviour from the brexit party:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1151418664744341505