EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I was in Manchester today and avoided Piccadilly as I couldn't be arsed with these bellwhiffs, seems like I shouldn't have been concerned.

Yup, more bacon than gammon.

What do you mean? all I can see is a police march.

Stolen from Faceache

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Strange article that seems to have a quote in the headline of 'more than 700,000' but then only repeats the figure of 670,000 in the body of the article. The last time I checked, this was less than 700,000, but I suppose post-'Brexit' referendum, mathematical realities may have changed.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/peoples-vote-march-more-than-700000-protesters-call-for-second-referendum-on-brexit-in-largest-a3967361.html

Seeing as the larger demonstration against the Iraq war didn't stop the Government from starting an illegal and horrific war, this now probably means that a 'People's Vote' won't happen.

Some thoughts from Germany

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-talks-watching-a-country-make-a-fool-of-itself-a-1234143.html

this now probably means that a 'People's Vote' won't happen.

There was never time for it to happen anyway, the march was really a protest and nothing more, sadly.

Difficult to find anything in there to disagree with.

In other news, I've started putting together my post-Brexit food stockpile. I reckon 6 weeks worth should be enough time for the rationing system to be up and running in some rudimentary form. I'm trying to convince myself I don't need to stockpile water, as that's quite an undertaking to cover a 6 week period.

Should rain in that period, and you can pass the tears of leavers through a small de-salination plant.

Oh, I know. I think protests only happen nowadays when causes are lost. A bit of entertainment so people don't feel as if there's nothing they can do.

There has been pressure on the government since 2017 and several protests, so it's not that nothing got done until now.

I'm not sure what else could have been done...

Some opposition from Labour might have changed things, might have led to a cross party consensus of remain minded MP’s, and something could have come from that, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

Labour are 100% committed to getting a GE out of this, lining themselves up to take the blame for that economic damage of Brexit I suspect.

What makes it even more sour for me:
EU immigrant, couldn't vote
My MP is DUP so emails yeah...he told my partner they'd vote against EU immigrants rights. Not going to bother with him.
We have had no NI government since nearly two years

Of course this disenfranchisement existed before Brexit with too many ignored, but all I could do is go the rally last Saturday... :(

JRM speaks to his people (yeah, sorry, it's the Daily Express)

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1034457/brexit-news-jacob-rees-mogg-comment-brexit-uk-economy-treasury

https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1054259274153639936

Given the Tories seem to have pinned the entire 2007-08 financial crisis on Labour, I’m sure they can return the favour in spades when it comes to apportioning blame for the Brexit slump. That the Tories called the referendum that led to it, then have owned it since makes it an open goal in my view.

Except Corbyn has the shooting skills of Jason Lee.

I’d pay good money to see Corbyn with a pineapple on his head.

Given the Tories seem to have pinned the entire 2007-08 financial crisis on Labour, I’m sure they can return the favour in spades when it comes to apportioning blame for the Brexit slump. That the Tories called the referendum that led to it, then have owned it since makes it an open goal in my view.

If Labour succeed in forcing a GE and then winning it then that would coincide with our leaving the EU, pretty much at the same time I suspect. Best case scenario there is that Labour signs the WA on offer so we get a transition, but discounting the FOTL-esque interpretations of their manifesto we'd still be facing significant economic challenges as the larger manufacturers and financial services houses left ahead of 2021. Labour would be the government that oversaw that process and would be indelibly marked by it I suspect.

Or, Labour get into power in 2022 (currently scheduled GE) just in time to inherit the outcome of the UK moving onto WTO terms. Again, Labour would be the party that are in power during the really hard times, and would be associated with them.

This is quite good (I think, other opinions are available): https://newrepublic.com/article/151733/mistake-countries-repeatedly-make-dealing-eu

The Tory regimes of the past 8 years have borrowed more money than all Labour governments ever, yet still they try and blame that on Gordon Brown, something which large sectors of the electorate seem to have swallowed. Corbyn just has to use the same play book to pin this whole sorry mess on the Tories.

An inherently right-wing electorate*, fed by a very right-wing media, with Corbyn's mastery of the slick sound-bite? Sounds nailed on.

* Apart from pensions, and the NHS, and public transport, but without having to actually pay for them from taxes

winces at the memory of David Baddiel in black face

Why a second referendum is a bad idea;

http://jackofkent.com/2018/10/five-arguments-against-a-peoplesvote/

That article makes some good points but misses on 2 key ones:

First, he talks about how an electorate cannot bind a subsequent electorate and how democratic decisions cannot be irreversible, but then dithers on the question of which mandate would have priority, the original referendum or the subsequent one. Obviously the answer is the later one, since more recentd democratic decisions overturn earlier ones.

Secondly, he says that the last GE was an endorsement of Brexit since the majority of the electorate voted for parties who endorsed it. This is nonsense, the GE was a vote on many issues and to expect a sudden swing away from the two major parties is unrealistic. The fact that the Tory majority was eliminated shows that there was no majority support for their vision of Brexit, but many voters would have seen that as an exercise is damage limitation (a Labour Brexit being the lesser of two evils, in the absence of an anti-Brexit party that could feasibly get into government), not a demonstration of their support for Brexit qua Brexit.

I'm not sure what else could have been done ...

A properly-drafted referendum law or, failing that, a proper investigation, with consequences, of criminal activity around the referendum that was had.

As for ordinary people, not a lot.