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Though increased austerity vs complete collapse is still an easy decision - blue passports wins evritim.
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spare me your liberal handwringing, anyone who votes for a fucko like trump or celebrates his perambulations is in the bag. i'm not having any of this "why not just engage" bullshit. fash is fash, these cunts are making excuses for people walking up and down the street waving swastikas ffs.
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Unless you're predicting interest rates post-Brexit, take another look at cost of government borrowing. Then take discounting into consideration. The UK should have been borrowing over the last handful of years and doing exactly that.
Additionally, Japan's problem is also demographic. Comparisons are not particularly useful.
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£1,200/year
How much for a garage with electricity?
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Equally at your self-sourced list that proves people aren't racist.
People think they aren't racist whilst doing and saying incredibly racist things.
Vis. Pensioners sitting in Marbella calling themselves expats and voting for Brexit because immigration is supposedly ruining their lives.
The truth is that every one of the categories you list can be occupied by racists.
It might be the fault of poor education, right wing press, or not but the proof is in the pudding when Joan from Lancaster-who has never had an interest in politics or economics-tells an Aerospace company they are doing it wrong by relying on just in time stock control because BORDERS.
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The Japan thing was sort of tounge in cheek as they have massive levels of debt but the markets still lend to them without worrying about their notional balance sheet.
But government borrowing is still subject to the market, and those prices will likely be higher post-Brexit and potentially under JC. Whether that negates the benefits is another story.
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People did not have any problems with voting along with racism/xenophobia. I think the only way I can sorta forgive that is the sheer lies told by the leave campaign and that everybody made their own mental Brexit. So there is plausable deniability.
And now we have an anti freedom of movement Labour leader who doesn't get called out on that either. Immigration chat is seen as the Brexit voters winner. Loss of Brits rights and freedom of movement is seen as ok, cos immigrants.
Not everyone is ready to forgive that. But if is of course completely not helping the discussion if it blocks solving the genuine issues.
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I'm assuming that your comment is pretty tongue-in-cheek, but just in case. Given that not everyone who voted for trump is a nazi-flag waver and some of them are otherwise, demonstrably quite intelligent, there is presumably something a bit more subtle going on that's worth looking at. When pretty much half of your voters vote for something that is partly hateful, you have to ask what is it about the other parts that makes them overlook the hateful bit. Saying, they're all just closet racists/fascist apologists is just as much a "thought-terminating cliche" as anything being called a snowflake, liberal cuck.
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then at best, the people that voted for the bullshit farage, trump etc are selling are happy to excuse the actions of racist, misogynist pricks because, hey! it's not like anything he says or does is going to affect me in any meaningful way, MAGA! WOO! not sure how that pans out as an improvement tbh.
anyway. we're not going to agree.
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Saying, they're all just closet racists/fascist apologists is just as much a "thought-terminating cliche" as anything being called a snowflake, liberal cuck.
If Trump didn't openly and unashamedly represent facist, racist behaviours and viewpoints then you might have a point there. The fact is that he does, and yet these 'demonstrably quite intelligent' or 'non nazi flagwavers' were content to overlook these despicable traits because something something, it suited their purposes.
If you're not a fascist, but you're prepared to vote for a fascist because it serves your purpose-well intended or not-then you might as well be a fascist anyway, and you definitely shouldn't get upset when people mistake you for one.
I have no tears for the stories of illegal Mexican immigrants who voted for Trump now finding their partners or children deported, they quite literally welcomed the fox into the hen house on that one.
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What's to understand? You Chuck your tick next to someone like Trump and your "concerns" disappear in a puff of fash flavoured smoke.
The labour party may be many things but they're not getting up on a stage and suggesting we lock up the children of immigrants to cheering crowds.
Anyway. Wrong thread I reckon.
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you might as well be a fascist anyway, and you definitely shouldn't get upset when people mistake you for one.
Yeah, I'm not doing much hand-wringing. A line I've used in this debate is "I don't think you're a racist, but all the racists' votes went in the same pile as yours."
and yet these 'demonstrably quite intelligent' or 'non nazi flagwavers' were content to overlook these despicable traits because something something, it suited their purposes.
Well yes! That's the point, it did suit their purposes sufficiently for them to overlook the other shit. When they cast their vote for Trump we're left with a couple of possible analyses: one is "aha! they were fascists all along, I knew it!", which doesn't seem very plausible or useful to me. Another is "how fucked up are things right now that a huge number of my countrymen are prepared to vote for this guy despite his obvious faults?!" That seems more useful to me.
If Trump/brexit voters are failing to learn from history, then perhaps we should. There was nothing particularly uncivilised about Germany in the 1930s. I'm pretty sure the majority of people living then were morally normal and yet Hitler was legally elected.
There was a great analysis published a while back (I think on slate.com) by a liberal, city-dwelling writer who grew up in a steel/coal town in the USA. Her main point was that when people in those communities say their way of life is disappearing they're not being metaphorical. Trump was the only one talking about trade and in extremis, many people will vote for the person who promises them a job and to put food on their family's table, even if they don't agree with their social policies.
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A lot of Japan's debt is also held domestically, meaning that it is less likely that investors will pull their money out. It is useful though to keep in mind that Italy and Greece for example ran into massive trouble by running up too much debt and investors losing confidence. 1 percentage point change in the interest rate the UK pays, say a move back to the average for 1998-2011, would cost roughly 20bn or 2.5% of the UK budget ( very roughly) . Also depends on what you spend the borrowed money on.
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About
EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath
Posted by
I think this is the reality - there is no way back, no way forward, we have to accept that the UK is about to get kicked out of the EU and our economy is going to implode.
Even if May resigns on Schedule (18th of August) and the Tories cancel Brexit the damage already inflicted will mean Austerity has to be turned up a notch.