EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Could you explain 4 in a little more detail please?

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/ it seems age is THE predictor atm.

So is assuming that a 3rd of ethnic minorities aren't racist worse than assuming that all leave voters are? Both seem wrong to me.

Are you serious? It does nothing of the sort. It proves the Conservatives have secured enough votes in a select number of constituencies to give them a majority of MPs - which they didn't even get this time.

What about the SNP splitting the labour votes? What about general low voter turnout? What about the first past the post system?

I can't help but wonder if you're the sober side of userwhateverhisnumberis.

Time to ignore.

Oh yeah, absolutely. For the record I don't think the leave vote as whole was a racist / xenophobic / far right vote.

I think it was just a massive protest. Which is the risk you take with referendums and why they are a fucking terrible idea.

You asserted earlier that the brexit racist person is a stereotype. That is anecdotal, so is saying all brexiters are racist.

I'm afraid you've lost me here - stereotype means a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. Oversimplified, not necessarily untrue.

That aside I think to assume all brexit voters are racist is lazy, divisive and helps no one, especially not remain voters (apart from giving a few internet warriors a warm fuzzy feeling perhaps). I also think that the leave supporting press and major backers should have been made to wager their favourite limbs against brexit being a success in return for being able to act as they did.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-sparks-furious-row-after-comparing-women-in-burkas-to-letter-boxes-or-bank-robbers-a3904611.html

Has Bannon advised Johnson to go full racist, do you think?

He’s always been a racist - the watermelon smiles, calling people picanninies, reciting a Kipling poem in a temple etc.

I think it was just a massive protest. Which is the risk you take with referendums and why they are a fucking terrible idea.

I couldn't agree more. That coward Cameron should be made to spend the next 100 years in a mock up of the future Kent customs traffic jam in an un-air conditioned Ford Escort in 32deg heat with a broken radio that only plays Nigel Farage greatest hits, with only a chainsmoking brexiteer gammon for company. Nailed to the seat by his scrotum, of course.

I'm not sure. I suspect he'd really like the gammon bit...

I lol'd inspite of myself.

Brilliant!

Blokes in a pub (know more than most of government)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx4AF-3Rd44

The whole leave campaign was one long dogwhistle for the far right. Poor white people don’t vote conservative. By making the campaign one long exercise in ‘othering’ they motivated the politically disenfranchised into getting to the ballot boxes by promising them a whiter England.

Just watched - thanks

Haha yes please!

Nice - worth tweeting to him as a reply to one of his occasional vacuous mutterings.

That the Tories get into power proves that the poorest 90% or 99% vote against their interests

I think it shows that some people don't take at face value what some politicians promise.

I don't think that politics in the UK can align with what would actually be good for the UK until Murdoch and Dacre are in the ground, and are not replaced with like for like.

The welfare state has been turned into something that punishes needy people for the entertainment of those in work - and it's then televised, vide Benefits Street etc.

I saw a very interesting post this morning about the origins of the welfare state which, in large part, came about from the shock realisation that 43% of the UK population that was accessible to be inducted into the army was (as a direct result of poverty) medically unable to sustain the endeavour of war.

It forced those that had no need of the welfare state directly to realise that socially it was required - it put the UK at a competitive disadvantage to do otherwise.

Now, however, war is increasingly fought via drone delivered missile - the day of battalions taking the field (whilst doubtless enough to give Mogg a medically dangerous erection) is over.

Therefore the enforced altruism of a society fit for war is long gone - and as long as the wretch can drag themself behind the wheel of the Uber long enough to get you to Heathrow, who fucking cares?

@freddo I feel like you're finally talking sense on here, earlier I must admit it felt a bit condescending and antagonistic, not to be rude to you, but I think my feelings are backed up by your post about your qualifications. I accept that your education provides you a potential greater insight, but honestly the way you came across was the same as the people you were/are arguing/discussing with. ie, you view some on here as very blinkered and unwilling to discuss the "real" motivation for voting brexit by leavers, but at the same time your view of those people is the same! However I will concede that now you're actually opening up, you are practicing what you preach.

That out of the way, I 100% agree with you about the lower class leavers voting that way as a result of the effects of un-checked globalisation. It is my opinion that the majority of leavers are not racist, but they do fear immigrants because that's what they've been told is the reason for their predicament! Since the shrinking and basic collapse of the working class industries, we have been fed the lies that the reason there are no jobs is because of the immigrants, however these are just lies. There are just layers upon layers upon layers of cause and effect, which have all just added together to create this environment. This has been rammed down the throats of the public, incessantly by right wing popular media and publications, until we are now in a situation where it is believed even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

In my personal opinion, one of the biggest factors, not just here, but worldwide, are the complete complicity by successive governments in prioritising private company revenue and profits over people. The whole concept of reducing costs, outsourcing, zero hour contracts, etc etc, at the same time as shoving consumerism down people's throats has forced the value to be put on getting everything done as cheaply as possible, and fuck the consequences. At the same time, the knock on effects on our workforce have not been considered, businesses work outside the confines of borders, but they effect populations. You should not be able to close a factory and open another somewhere elsewhere without acknowledging that your actions are causing an effect. Either elected officials of countries affected should be limiting the exposure through sanctions or restrictions in these practices, or they should be coming up with strategies to mitigate the effects. Decades of this have, in my opinion, left us in this state.

On top of that, in more recent years, PFI, the slow privatisation of our services, the incredible fees charged by the big 4 consultancies, have, in this country caused a complete degradation of our public services. There is a fuck tonne of cash being wasted, there's so much money being spent, but not reaching the right people.

Add to that things like:

1. basically legal corruption at government and council levels
   
2. vilification of those on welfare
   
3. lack of funding in general but specifically youth services and education
   
   

So how does you change leavers' views on brexit? I think we're beyond that, but a good start would be firstly stopping austerity, and explaining why spending is not a bad thing, it's a good thing, resuming spending on needed services but at the same time starting the incredibly long process of un-doing privatisation. Next, open discussions on how you're going to provide jobs outside London that aren't zero hour contracts, and are suitable for the available workforce.

@|³|MA3K

You can't expect people to just re-train, you have to support them, brandishing people as lazy or un-willing just because you moved across the world for work, in the face of whatever, or how ever many challenges, doesn't mean "anyone can do it".

However, I believe we're in a situation that even if every single elected official and every single newspaper and news source told the exact situation, how the country has been fucked, and all the lies they've pushed and supported, some would still choose to not believe and look to the fringes for people who stick to the false narrative that's been built over the years. It'd be a good start though.

This is quite funny

https://shop.mr.bingo/products/brexit-tea-towel

This is quite an interesting thread that is (partially) related to some of your comments

https://twitter.com/DeborahMeaden/status/1025480585572233218

(The bits by QuantumChoices)

I'm more than willing to be schooled on anything I said, a lot of it is based on things I've read and assimilated over a long time, some of it is straight out of Private Eye, so I can't evidence it. Which makes it open for discussion or debate.

The new DM editor (Geordie Greig) is strongly pro remain. I suspect that even the DM owners have realised that the writing is on the wall. Will be interesting to see how their position changes over time.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2018/06/will-geordie-greig-make-daily-mail-less-brexit%3famp