EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

"having originally agreed only to forge an economic union"

I'm not sure this bit is true. The message from the PM at the time explicitly said it was more than an economic arrangement.

This thread is really just a big echo chamber. A load of people in London (a reasonable proportion earning significant salaries and owning expensive houses) pointing at Brexit voters and declaring them all racist idiots. You can see why a lot of people in deprived towns thought Fuck you, what relevance does this have to us.

To the extent that this thread has become a bit one note recently, it's that it's become mostly insults to the incompetent and dishonest politicians who are steering Brexit. That's because Brexit has moved from the phoney war stage to the actual disastrous implementation stage.

The imagined contempt for the less privileged is something you have imputed, with little or no evidence. Your whole long post is, while a reasonable description of some of the realities of Brexit and motivations, a declaration that you have thought of all these things and the rest of us haven't. Not just that we haven't thought of these things through simple oversight, but that we do so out of blind prejudice.

Get in the sea.

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1024367348369825792

Vote Leave money taking student turns out to think it is funny to make jokes about EU nationals moving out of the UK.

News at 10.

The official beer of Brexit...Mythos and the logo is a unicorn!

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"Research concludes (summary of 100 pages) that brexit vote was ‘strongly and causally’ associated with exposure to austerity polices -domestic politics. Economic shock from leave (focused on leave areas) will only exacerbate problems that led to brexit."

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/manage/publications/381-2018_fetzer.pdf

(PDF Warning)

There is not, but thought it was interesting maybe as it is a slightly different group that is usually discussed on here.

War on Want is also pro Brexit, because they think EU deals are not fair enough. Socialists and other Left are against due to the treatment of immigrants/refugees.

https://www.rha.uk.net/getmedia/c98d0219-fcf7-434e-b9cd-51f2ff0c316c/180730-Brexit-pull-your-finger-out-final.pdf.aspx

This thread is really just a big echo chamber. A load of people in London (a reasonable proportion earning significant salaries and owning expensive houses) pointing at Brexit voters and declaring them all racist idiots. You can see why a lot of people in deprived towns thought Fuck you, what relevance does this have to us.

If you want to reduce the argument to this level of analysis: I grew up in a city that topped Europe's murder and poverty rates, and still outstrips the rest of the UK/EU for public health issues, has suffered enormously from liberalisation and Tory economic policy but remains emphatically pro-EU in outlook (68% remain).

Why? We've not lost sight of who the cunts are that fucked us then and continue to fuck us now. There's still a percentage of self-hating McGammons who have been indoctrinated into Unionist ideology through generations of political divide and conquer exploiting religious fault lines, but thankfully they're a minority and are rightfully derided for the corrosive nasty social influence they are in a way that the kippers down south should have been too. Funnily enough, May made a deal with the DUP that helps sustain and legitimise these imagined grievances and acts against years of hard won political progress for her own self preservation.

And FYI I don't live in London now, have no assets to speak of and am looking to move permanently to the EU just to guarantee a basic standard of living because there's less and less of a chance of finding it here and I don't want to waste another decade of lost opportunity thanks to austerity and recession.

But ye. Keep telling yourself this small, niche cycling forum is an echo chamber representative of a wealthy urban elite, symbolic of some kind of anti proletarianism if it helps you ignore the fact that the UK is one of the most rapaciously right wing countries in Europe, driven by the Murdoch dominated press on behalf of offshore trust funds, and that takes advantage of poor disenfranchised people by both promoting policies that act against their interests whilst sheltering their own wealth from taxation, and then drip feeding them the message that it's all Jonny Foreigner's fault they can't get ahead.

Mindblown.gif

I do not like green eggs and Gammon.

It's the marching Orange tinted gammons I take issue with. Thankfully they literally beat their own drums to permit people to avoid them...

It's a mix of the two - a half way house between the French and British common law. These people also ignore how much of our law is codified even without the adoption of EU legislation.

But even so this is lost on me. So what?

We've had successful legal integration for years. Of course there are problems here and there, but how many people do you come across who have personally experienced failures/breakdowns in the law as a result of the EU, compared with say recovery of debts, companies going under or landlord/neighbour issues, etc.?

No mate, you've got it all wrong, @aggi is the only one who has taken the time to talk to those really affected by brexit, the rest of us are just a bunch of privileged cry babies.

You'd do well to check your privilege.

Not sure if this has been posted (here or elsewhere) but a surprisingly strident and sensible view from The Sun on Tommy Robinson

You'd do well to check your privilege.

I did that, but it turned out it was just the beetroot shot turning my piss red.

Remember that? 1-8 are Unicorns that have long escaped, if 9 happens it'll be a catastrophe, and 10 is likely to occur simply because we've made the UK into such an utter shithole that those who can escape will, and those with a choice to come here or go elsewhere overwhelmingly choose elsewhere.

But Rees-Mogg and his chums won't have to pay the same amount of tax as us plebs, so that part (oddly not on the list?) will at least have worked.

Remember that?

No.

Where is this supposed "Brexit contract"? Vote Leave certainly spouted a load of soundbites that they didn't have a chance in hell of delivering, but where did the government promise that lot?
If you take "The government" to mean the incumbent PM at the time, then surely David Cameron was preaching "project fear'?

That said, I completely agree with the next post.

Even when their Union explained to them the benefits.

But then look at things like the gorse farmers, and how the system has been abused when it was designed to help and protect.

Remember the 350 million on the side of a bus?

And they made the points up, is what you are suggesting?

regardless, these things make up the guff that was spouted, and which caused those who believed them to vote leave come the referendum, despite them being patently undeliverable (particularly to those who promised them)

He’s in squiffy lol mode so I doubt he knows what he’s suggesting. He’ll be back in forlorn denial mode soon like a hungover Farage claiming he’s been bullied and misquoted...

You come here to scorn remainer posts, then when people call you out on statements (like that the WTO trading may not be so easy) there is no reply.

Do you want to add info or just gloat?

I am not having that much fun as an EU immigrant in Northern Ireland with this whole thing. Border? Not sorted. Rights? Not really, the system is still not up and running and any rights can be easily revoked by the UK government. But he-ho, Brexit is so much lolz.

when people call you out on statements (like that the WTO trading may not be so easy) there is no reply.

To be fair, the greatest minds Brexit has to offer aren't able to come up with anything more coherent than brexit means brexit or will of the people when asked that question.

I didn't expect any kind of reply. It's page 1 in the defending brexit play book, ignore the difficult questions, page 2 checkout all the sovereignty and blue passports.