EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

I agree. And it makes me wonder what the logically "best" options on a multi way second referendum should be.

Possibly they should be:

a) the current government proposed deal (assuming we get to one)
b) no deal / hard brexit
c) something else as yet undefined that better suits my view of Brexit
d) remain

I suspect that c) would be a strong contender, but what does it mean? Unfortunately, it would mean a continuation of the madness. Although, almost by definition it would imply remaining in the EU until it could be defined and agreed upon.

Key thing it to only include options that the government actually wants to implement.

Had we won the World Cup I reckon Brexit would have been cancelled and zero shits would have been given.

What we need is another referendum.

You think that Croatia's facist president ensured that we lost in the semi's in order to ensure Brexit?

I think Boris and Putin and garage have all been plotting.

I only see another binary referendum work, as otherwise it is yet another fudge.

3 options, you are going to get 30ish/30ish/30ish which is even worse than 52/48.

You think that Croatia's facist president ensured that we lost in the semi's in order to ensure Brexit?

Damn right

3 options, you are going to get 30ish/30ish/30ish which is even worse than 52/48.

Ranked voting like STV [trollface]

Interesting discussion on another forum where the possibility of No deal, May's deal, Remain as a referendum with STV has been suggested.

Question is whether May's deal would come out top as the fudge that satisfies most or bottom as the fudge that satisfies no-one.

It was imperative upon Team Corbyn, and Keir Starmer whenever he joined the Labour front bench to ensure that the Tories & the right wing press could not label the Labour party as traitors to the cause of the OneTruBrexit.
Brexit has always been a Tory dream, from at least the days of John Major's B4st4rds in the 1990's.
Sufficient patience has led us to here & now where the divisions in the Tory party are apparent even to those uninterested in politics.
A bit more blue-on-blue political skirmishing and Labour can advance a few more percent in opinion polls.
The ERG will not stop whingeing just because Westminster goes into its Summer Recess.

They can't, but that is because Labour is Brexit atm.

Taking the proposal seriously (I know your are kidding):

Remain does not have a majority, or collapse out with no deal does not have one: Mogg etc. will hand over their "collapse out votes to...who?"

Remain would hand out their votes to soft Brexit, maybe?

Would there be a party whip?

Cos somebody somewhere is now proposing this serious and not for the lulz ;)

Half-serious, I know how the AV ref went. I'm very into electoral reform.

I think the opposite, the nationalist twats would have thought it was evidence that we can do whatever we want coz we are engurland yeah so brexit will be a success??

I think a 3 way ref on the final deal is best. It is more likely to be 48 remain / 26 deal on the table / 26 hard - splitting the leave vote (and assuming most people vote the same way).

Re the four ERG/no deal brexit amendments to May's Chequers Brexit proposal; surely May should be proclaiming 'Nothing has changed!'?

STV won't work if no one puts a second and third preference down.

I know I wouldn't put one down.

You'd have to make it count as a spoilt ballot paper unless you put in a number 2 preference.

I am not so sure, a lot of people still don't seem to realize how bad the current deal is...

...and maybe you could argue one binary (in or out) deserves another (out with deal or in)?

I find it bemusing that people are advocating another referendum, given that’s what got us into this mess in the first place.

The first referendum was about resolving the splits in the Tory party - Cameron had no intention of leaving the EU.

If we had a second referendum which was actually about the thing being asked in said referendum then that might work.

However - I suspect that the media narrative of intransigent EU vs plucky Tories would see the public vote to leave again.

We'd need JLR/Airbus/Nissan to state "we are leaving if you leave the EU" to get remain win I suspect.

But Brexit still doesn't mean anything. Only when it means a no-deal, WTO deal, bespoke deal etc should there be another referendum.

I think this is ripe for a new party to form with the sole intention of cancelling the whole thing.

But that can only be decided once we've left - the whole "deal" thing is totally misleading, as it's only ever going to be (right now) whether we get a withdrawal agreement/transition.