Tubeless Tyres -"saying the same things about tubeless tyres over and over again" Hippy read the first f**king post

Yeah, it's an in-race solution.

Personally still hate the idea of using CO2 carts for anything as well as liquid in my tyres...
But I wanna get to grips with all this shit in case I do end up running the 650B TL wheels next year gravel racing.

Personally still hate the idea of using CO2 carts for anything as well as liquid in my tyres...

Yeah I don't carry Co2 because my tyres all stay mounted when deflated.

It will ruin your sealant in the same ride. I tried, and failed, to run CO2, anchovies, and glue. It just leaves a dirty mess of brown water and hardened white bits.
Muc off sealant claims to be CO2 compatible, never tried myself

I only have experience with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One and 42mm WTB Horizon? (their knobby tan wall) and both had to be forced off the rim with my SuperThumbs.

So I don't need CO2? Am I ever likely to need it? Like what if you have older tyres where the bead may have stretched. Actually I'll always be carrying a tube spare so I would just fit tube and inflate. So, basically, I can stick to my one man crusade against CO2 carts?

Which sealant did it ruin?

Dear Win,
You generally can’t count on using the same sealant long-term after having inflated it with CO2 or with a sealant-filled inflator. Here are some replies from sealant makers.
― Lennard

From Effetto Mariposa:
“Inflate and repair cartridges commonly contain liquid sealant and propane (or methane-propane mixes), a gas that turns to liquid at lower pressures (5 bar @ 0°C) compared to CO2 (around 35 bar @ 0°C). That’s why inflate and repair cartridges come in aluminum cans and CO2 comes in little steel cylinders; the internal stress the container has to endure is much less for propane. That’s also the reason why you get more inflating power from a small 16g CO2 cartridge than from a big 75ml inflate and repair cartridge, but I digress.

The expansion of a gas is an endothermic reaction (brutally said, it “sucks” heat) and the magnitude of the temperature drop is related to the initial gas pressure; because of its higher cartridge pressure, CO2 will “freeze” a lot more than inflate and repair cartridges like our Espresso.

The reason why latex sealants solidify when using CO2 cartridges is a physical one; it’s the big thermal shock, which often initiates the polymerization of the sealant. To avoid it, it’s normally sufficient to put the valve at 12-o’clock prior to inflation and let the sealant flow down to the 6-o’clock area, so that it won’t be directly hit by the cold gas. Also, reducing the inflation speed (most CO2 adapters allow it these days) will prevent dropping the temperature too much, good for the sealant … and good for your hands, if you’re not wearing gloves.

Inflate and repair cartridges, while sealant-safe from a physical standpoint, are dangerous for the sealant from a chemical standpoint, though. Besides physical shocks (thermal shocks, but also sudden evaporation — as in the case of a puncture), changes in the pH of the sealant can also trigger its polymerization. Using an inflate and repair cartridge, you’re mixing the sealant inside your tires with the sealant inside the cartridge. The mix is stable if both have the same pH (like our Espresso and Caffélatex, which have a similar formula for this very purpose); otherwise, the sealant will normally solidify in a matter of minutes or maximum a few days. This won’t prevent roadside repair, so the cartridge will serve its purpose, but you’d better wash away the sealant mix once at home and restore your liquid sealant of choice, for enduring protection.
— Alberto De Gioannini
Founder, Effetto Mariposa Sagl”

From Stan’s:
“We have not tested the Hutchinson FastAir that contains a liquid sealant. We have used the Propane Big Air and the Big Air works fine with our sealant. CO2 will get you out of the woods, but we found it reduced the life of the sealant.
— Peter Kastner
System Manager
Stan’s NOTUBES”

Also from Stan’s:
“I don’t think the propane will affect the sealant. Either way, he just needs to get home. Once home, he can remove one bead of the tire and inspect his sealant. Tubeless tires are not hard to dismount if you push one bead into the drop channel and remove this bead while leaving the second bead stretched on the tubeless bench. It’s harder to remove the tire once both beads are in the drop channel. But even then, a plastic lever can remove the first bead and the second will push off with your hand.
— Stan Koziatek
Stan’s NOTUBES”

https://www.velonews.com/2014/12/technical-faq/technical-faq-tire-sealant-questions_355499

You can release the Co2 when at home and replace with boring every day air.

If I ever use CO2 to reinflate a tubeless tyre, I always deflate it when I get somewhere with a track pump. I can't say that on MTB I've noticed any real change in longevity of sealant as long as I do this.

Stan's and effetto mariposa, one in 23c wheels, the other 40c.

Also, I've never had a tubeless tire jumping out of the bead. Only once I got severe burping with a non tubeless rated tire, and even that got reinflated with a mini pump and much swearing

I've got that Caffélatex stuff too. I'm going to be using it when I fit some slick 47mm WTBs soon. It seemed ok in the Pro One, although that held air without any sealant, though it went off in the tyre in storage and I now need to scrape it off the inside of the (still new otherwise) tyre.

Sounds like I only need CO2 for shit tyres so I'll try and avoid it.

I already have a minipump and I'm God Level swearer so that's me sorted.

CO2 can once again fuck off. Ta

I attest

No problems with muc off sealant and co2 here. Also no problems putting through the valve with the core removed - the nozzle of Capri sun pouch it comes in is the right size to fit over a presta stem

Leaking at the valve. I've taken it out and wiped it, looking for anything obvious. Nothing much.
Any tricks other than smearing it with sealant (which seems like quite a shit solution).

Tightened enough, rubber o-ring (if needed) put in?

It's pretty tight. I mean, my fingers are on the strong end of the scale, if you're suggesting I need to use pliers or something on it then once again I spit at the tubeless.

I removed the valve. It has a square block of rubber that sits in the rim, a plastic shield thing that sits over the outside of the rim and provides a flat surface for the metal lockring.

Pump to max pressure and finger tighten works for me. And my fingers are on the fine motor skills end of the spectrum.

I did. It just bled air. Next suggestion?

Hole in the tape too big?

Yeah just finger tight, otherwise you're screwed if you ever need to put a tube in. The valves I used the other day had a soft-ish base so sealed pretty well but the last lot I got (might have been Stans but it was a long time ago) needed an o-ring inside the rim to seal properly.

No idea. Not my install.
It's not obviously too big - it also held air with the previous set of tyres that I just took off.

What sort of o-ring are we talking? Are these TL specific things?

Maybe some sort of two layer system? Something inherently airtight? Can't find the word for it though, subway maybe?

Hey, I'm 100% a tube user. I'm giving TL a chance on these gravel wheels because they came already TL but I wanna swap tyres. So far, they've proved to be annoying and I question the sanity of using them in an ultra race when tubes just work.

sometimes it can be poorly seated tape, not even by the valve, but that is where the air eventually escapes. pump up with sealant, spin wheel and then shake the wheel so sealant also gets to the rim tape