That Corbyn fella...

Indeed. Given how widespread this ‘we should have purged the Blairites before they purged us’ feeling seems to be, I think Labour will lose the next election because it will yet again be too busy eating itself.

This stuff is a total fucking gift to the Daily Mail

No it’s not.

Mentions of the Forde report on the front pages (web based) of the right wing press today
Daily Mail: 0
Telegraph: 0
Times: 0
Express: 0
Sun: 0

Because the British press
A) do not give one teeny tiny fuck about racism or otherwise reprehensible behaviour when it’s people they approve of doing it
B) don’t want to revisit that period when they were screeching and finger pointing and gnashing their teeth, because the Forde report indicates they should really go back and reconsider the work they did at that time, and that would be deeply inconvenient for them.

As a thought experiment: if the Labour left were still in control of the party today and a report as damning as the Forde report was released, do we think it would be off the front pages a mere handful of days after it had been published?

if the Labour left were still in control of the party today and a report as damning as the Forde report was released, do we think it would be off the front pages a mere handful of days after it had been published?

Yes, if at the time we were in the middle of a Tory leadership campaign / cost of living crisis. They clearly are gunning for Starmer (see beergate) so it isn't as if actually they're good with Starmer and so are giving him an easy ride

No it’s not.

Mentions of the Forde report on the front pages (web based) of the right wing press today
Daily Mail: 0
Telegraph: 0
Times: 0
Express: 0
Sun: 0

Wait until we're closer to the GE. Or maybe even sooner...wait until there is a new PM in post who can make hay with this.

There is no way that the report is being ignored. Tabloids and CCHQ plan these things.

I think it entirely depends how Labour take it. If both factions accept the report, even if its with reservations, there's a way forward that means we're united as a party.

What I'm seeing - and I say this as a person who sits more on the centre right of the party than the hard left - is that people of my faction grudgingly accept* the report. We accept that our faction used Jewish people as a political football, albeit many of us were genuinely acting out of solidarity. We accept that our faction played its part in the damning EHRC judgement. We accept that a few people in our faction acted like absolute fuckers and should be ashamed of themselves.

But what I'm seeing from the hard left faction is ongoing denialism. It's not across the board but you DO see it in these threads. People claiming the Forde report completely exonerates their faction. People claiming that Corbyn himself is exonerated of being antisemitic. People claiming that the Forde report proves that 'centrists' tried to 'throw' the 2017 election. Nothing supported by the evidence. Nothing that makes sense.

That kind of denialism will mean perpetuating a schism which the right wing press can exploit. In the worst case it will mean that faction will be removed from the Labour Party altogether, to everyone's detriment.

It is a painful business to accept a judgement like this. None of us come out well. But some of us accept that it's a more or less accurate reflection of reality and engage with what it actually says.

Some of us don't.

with a couple of minor issues. Forde suggesting that JVL, a group which has mostly been expelled from the party for antisemitism, should be engaged in antisemitism training, is what feels like a calculated insult. Glen Secker said that Jewish people were in the gutter with rats! Whatshername, Manson the chair, said openly that JVL was set up to deny antisemitism in Labour - something which the Forde report says was an example of institutional racism. These people belong nowhere near a political party

I agree with most of this, I'd say my faction is the opposite to yours so maybe we can move on!

I find it really sad when BOTH sides are like 'jeez, I can't believe how the others are acting, it's so pretty and spiteful' while doing the exact same thing depending on who is in charge, ie calling for unity while acting in the opposite way, and completely failing to recognise they did the same thing 5 years ago, and 5 years before that etc .
Hopefully this report can be 'both sides' enough for most people to recognise it and move on together.

My opinion is that the press are waiting for:

1) New PM to be in post.
2) To wait and see if any cracks develop in Labour
3) To stick their fingers in those cracks and make them bigger if they see an opportunity.

To jump on the Forde report, when it was clearly timed to be drowned out by the leadership race and heat wave, would have been uncharacteristic of the press.

I have zero doubt that if there is a GE called soon, we'll be hearing a lot about antisemitism and racism in the labour party and how the party is split arguing about it.

Daily Mail: Johnson was bad, but you don't want to vote for the racist antisemites at war with each other...do you?

This whole thing really makes me despair of the Labour party and question whether I should ever have reconciled myself to support them.

Splitting the left of centre vote is clearly a terrible idea for ever getting a non Tory govt in power, however it seems that having a "socialist" party and a "centrist dad" party would be the only way to stop this crazy in-fighting within a party which really should have a lot of overwhelming common aims to unite behind.

Like getting the Tories out of govt, for example.

I have zero doubt that if there is a GE called soon, we'll be hearing a lot about antisemitism and racism in the labour party and how the party is split arguing about it.

Agreed, and I think we’ll be hearing more about the “deep state” Johnson referred to in the HoC a couple of weeks ago. Planting a seed I suspect.
https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/07/boris-johnsons-deep-state-conspiracy-theory

This whole thing really makes me despair of the Labour party

Same here. I'd like to support Labour, but I find it difficult to support a party which is more concerned about internecine factionalism and arguments over doctrinal purity than providing a credible alternative to the Tories.

Lab seems to be 2 parties that used to cooperate. They need a final push to get in, impose PR, then split and accept they'll always have a smaller but representative voice in a fairer parliament.

#nevergonnahappenthough.

Exactly how it will be presented. And those minded to will accept it with open arms. And not all of them will be Tory voters.

Hopefully this report can be 'both sides' enough for most people to recognise it and move on together.

I genuinely think it might be, and it genuinely might be the value in this final report. It can create a new dividing line in Labour, not between the left and the centre, but between those who are prepared to accept criticism based on evidence on the one hand, and those who prefer to deny our problems on the other.

I have now also seen centrist types refusing to accept the report and or claiming that this report vindicates them 100% now, so it genuinely is an issue with both extremes of both factions. Labour is better off without them imo.

Jez just gave interview to a pro-Russian channel saying Ukraine should roll over and accept its position as Putin's latest fiefdom. The crazy cat.

He's a pacifist, see also: nuclear button. Dunno why people are surprised by this.

The issue for me isn’t him being a pacifist - it’s him lacking the vision to see when that becomes an issue (as here).

or he isn't a part time pacifist

If your view of your ideals is so set that you can’t see when they might cause more harm, then I maintain that is a problem. You think the world is a better place if no-one stands up to tyrants? I strongly disagree

If your view of your ideals is so set that you can’t see when they might cause more harm, then I maintain that is a problem.

The throwing away of the 2017 GE opportunity in a nutshell.

¯\(ツ)/¯
again, we know this about him, it shouldn't be surprise.

Not sure anyone has said it’s a surprise, just that it’s problematic…

if no-one stands up to tyrants?

But he is standing up to NATO!

This.

How do i do the crying laughing emoji?