That Corbyn fella...

I'm still not impressed by his Brexit wishy washiness and lack of proper opposition to it, but at least the UK now looked at his policies, which bar on Brexit cos wishful thinking, are mostly sound.

May also really screwed this up. That helped him a lot.

But I wish him all the best. Labour is going back to be a more centre-left party, that I like.

I'm still not impressed by his Brexit wishy washiness and lack of proper opposition to it, but at least the UK now looked at his policies, which bar on Brexit cos wishful thinking, are mostly sound.

Sure, but again--what is Corbyn supposed to have done? Look where the Lib Dems got with their clear pro-Bremain stance. Corbyn clearly called it right--had he opposed 'Brexit', the election would have been about 'Brexit', and I can well imagine May having won then. As it was, Labour took the sting out of that immediately and was able to talk about its positive agenda. The 'Brexit' crisis wasn't of Labour's making and they would have plunged themselves into all sorts of misery (internal division etc.) if they'd come out in favour of Remain very strongly. It was a lose-lose situation on the face of it and they made the best of it by turning it into a conditional win.

Watched his Channel 4 profile+interview on youtube last night. Thought he made his position on armed forces quite clear despite the interviewer's attempts to soundbite him.

(maintain NATO 2% defense funding target, invest in proper equipment
and vehicles, won't rush into direct military intervention to defend a
NATO member under attack, says NATO Article 5 only mandates support,
doesn't specify that it has to be military, better to use diplomacy
and sanctions to pre-empt war)

his Brexit wishy washiness and lack of proper opposition to it

He's never been that keen on the EU, but I believe the party's aims in negotiations would be tariff-free access, safeguards for current expats (both here and there), protection of worker's rights and environmental laws transferred from EU law to UK statute...

Sounds like Norway to me.

Sounds like losing the EU vetos, the banking and still paying the fees and having to pay for an NI border to me.

He can have Norway, but then it's freedom of movement.

He could have pointed out a hard brexit was disastrous and use that as a rational to not use a triple whip on article 50. He just bowled over, which may have been the right thing to do in hindsight.

I am also not impressed by the immigration ballix of Labour during the campaign (visa for EU nationals?) and their stance they can get the single market but limit EU freedom of movement, but they will soon find that out.

It wasn't off his own making obv. And the LidDems still got punished for being in government with the Tories...

But then he'd have lost a load of votes from people who view immigration and control of borders as an important issue.

Exactly, but he went with this anti EU immigrants narrative against all the facts.

I totally understand the electioneering, but I don't think it's a principled centre-left position to take.

They may compromise on this to stay in the Single Market.

He could have pointed out a hard brexit was disastrous

I thought Labour have been saying that constantly?

and use that as a rational to not use a triple whip on article 50. He just bowled over, which may have been the right thing to do in hindsight.

No, I think he couldn't help but impose a triple whip--firstly because (I think) votes of such importance are always whipped, secondly because the 'press' would have crucified him for not doing so, and thirdly because he assessed the atmosphere around 'Brexit' quite correctly.

I am also not impressed by the immigration ballix of Labour during the campaign (visa for EU nationals?) and their stance they can get the single market but limit EU freedom of movement, but they will soon find that out.

We'll see. I'd certainly rather have Keir Starmer sitting there than that bizarre trio. Oops, sorry, a weak and wobbly leader.

It wasn't off his own making obv. And the LidDems still got punished for being in government with the Tories...

Probably, but also simply because most voters weren't too interested in 'Brexit' this time around and the Lib Dems failed to profile themselves on a host of other issues, e.g. those issues the Labour manifesto addressed and which proved popular.

Well I was pleasantly surprised.

I was advocating Corbyn standing down due to him being unable to quell the civil war within the Labour Party, but he's stuck it out and delivered a better manifesto and a better result than most thought possible.

Fair play to Corbyn.

Aye, fair enough on Lib Dems they may have over estimated how people understand Brexit: Cos this is going to bit the economy in the backside. So they really wanted to focus on staying in the single market. While Labour played the softly gently game.

Or they crash the UK out anyway. Either way, as an EU national with no UK citizenship (cos I can't) by now I am honestly getting fed-up with UK politics.

Starmer refused to allow the EJC to have a say about EU national rights after Brexit, comes up with no alternative, we still know nothing. Best hope I have is that this mess collapses again, and Labour comes back as the biggest party.

If you don't mind me asking, is there a reason you can't become a British citizen? I thought you'd been over here for a fair time.

I lose my Dutch citizenship then... Dutch groups are lobbying to get this changed.

I really don't feel like losing freedom of movement...

I think that's a Dutch problem. Plenty of other nations have no problem with joint citizenship.

Ok. So it's your choice (not that I blame you) and an issue with your home nation rather than you can't get citizenship

Yeah totally is.

But the lack of safeguards for EU nationals and UK immigrants in the EU is a UK brexit created problem.

So I'm pissed off with politics atm :)

real shitty that we almost farted off on our euro allies when thinking our american friends are going to somehow bolster us up.

npw it seems we have to let kiwi chocolate interests go unrewarded. idiocy

He is sounding much more confident on Marr this morning. Hope things now mean he will have support from parliamentary Labour Party now.

He's taking tips from Ed Miliband's twitter account.

Stephen Kinnock on Pienaar's Politics just now, asked if he and others who challenged Corbyn's leadership should eat humble pie. His answer: I make no apologies, we ran two democratic leadership elections, in which Corbyn was tested as a campaigner. By contrast, May faced no opposition in her coronation, leading to her arrogant and weak campaign and leadership.

It's a clever argument, but I think he should eat a bit of humble pie. Just a little bit. As Bob Dylan said, "swallow your pride, you will not die, it's not poison"

Nailed it

On election night there were a huge variety of Labour MPs squirming to avoid admitting that were wrong and giving Corbyn credit.

There have been a few centrists, though, who have shown contrition. Polly Toynbee said "I've never been happer to be wrong". Alistair Campbell praised Corbyn's campaign, as did Ummuna who said he would be happy to serve in a shadow cabinet.

I also thought that John Woodcock was amazingly humble on BBC circa 6am Friday morning.

owen smith given NI brief.