If you support segregated cycling infrastructure in Hackney

What if someone wants to get a cab how will that impact the no stopping at anytime red routes and lack of parking you guys have mentioned? I mean if they didn't stop whenever and however they feel like it everything would come grinding to a hault wouldn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozoxWl60_UY

Maybe cabs would die out almost completely because nobody wanted to take them anymore due to walking and cycling being so pleasant and normal.

Christ, that'd be wonderful

I wonder if this is why cabbies hate cyclists so much, because with the rise of cycling in the city - especially the introduction of Boris bikes - this must have hit their business. Although I guess this may all be countered by the rising population.

I wonder if this is why cabbies hate cyclists so much.

Because unlike people who take public transport, there's very little reason why cyclists need taxis apart from a last resort (something like a puncture, or if you're @Multi_Grooves).

What's the problem with Kingsland Road? I commuted that way for years on various slow bikes, including a raleigh with rod brakes, and never found it especially intimidating. I'm surprised to see it held up (down?) as the nadir of Hackney roads for cycling.

I guess, you don't find it intimidating, but many other people do?

This is the key issue with cycle campaigning - the people who already cycle are the ones who aren't intimidated - and they're also many of those involved in campaigning. A lot of people tend to think, well, if I can do it, everyone else can - but that's not necessarily true.

This is interesting:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/dec/11/mass-cycling-social-justice-equalities-case

I read that earlier and found some of the points interesting; others slightly confused. As an example:

Similar statistics show older people, black and minority ethnic people and disabled people (more on the latter group below) are all more at risk to be, as Aldred puts it, “excluded from cycling”.

Anyone spending some time around London will see that there is plenty of cycle use by 'minority ethnic people' as they put it. The problem is that the methodology seems to focus on those doing a regular cycle commute, rather than cycle owners and users of all kinds. I wonder if this part of the stats is actually revealing more about the shameful economic inequities of the UK, and opportunities in general, rather than saying anything about cycling.

They appear to be skirting close to saying that someone's ethnicity determines how willing they are to use a road, which is a patently absurd conclusion.

I mean "what's the problem" as in - "please describe the bits that are a problem to me", not "how come people have a problem". I genuinely would like to know how come that road is seen as especially bad because I can think of plenty I find worse, including some in Hackney.

In fact, I started out on the quiet bike route but swapped to the A10 when I realised it was far less worrying (fewer junctions, wider road, no double-parking)

quietways ?
will they be significant?
discuss

Thing is, that what the old London Cycle Network is for.

Hopefully "Quietways" won't be an ironic name like the Cycle Superhighway.

It gets pretty crap north of dalston

Once they're full of cyclists and dog walkers they'll not be quiet?

They could do with just ensuring the LCN routes were in better condition, improving signage, and updating a few of the bits where the LCN was forced to take some sort of cruel and unusual zig zag route.

I'm more concerned that they are largely based on taxi rat runs with no will to close through traffic and therefore are not actually that great to cycle through anyway.

They'll be on normal roads, so the dog walkers will be corralled off onto the tiny little pavements where they belong, as befits their status as the lowest of the low in Britain's Brave New World of transport hierarchy.

It'll just be stressed cyclists and angry taxi drivers

Ah, my bad. I'd wrongly interpreted "quiet" to mean "off road traffic free", not "on road".

(I'll read the blurb next time.)

I'm more concerned that they are largely based on taxi rat runs with no will to close through traffic and therefore are not actually that great to cycle through anyway.

This isn't the case @hairnetnic , many a significanlty calmed already such as the ones through Hackney parallel with the A10 (Through the Filtered network), and through Lambeth LCN 3 Oval to Calpham Common. Those that are being used as rat runs (where are you referring to?) can be made inconvenient for Taxi with some will and bollards

The Tavistock/Calthorpe section of the LCN through Camden. The LCN through North Westminster just south of Marylebone road. I think it is going to be very council specific

Indeed and surely most of the LCN which by its nature is not an a TRN route would be council specific. I suppose councils should be looking at other councils where there is in place good practice, like, er, Hackney

For the quietways, that would make sense. But the quietways are a different solution to a different problem than the solution of segregation on main roads. Which brings us back to the original petition which was to persuade the LCC in Hackney to drop its refusal to use segregation where it is needed.

original petition which was to persuade the LCC in Hackney to drop its refusal to use segregation where it is needed.

But Hackney LCC do not refuse to use segregation. Their understanding of where it's needed is more nuanced

I know we are going round in circles Nic, but do you think that where there is a quietway, a direct parallel route like the one parallel with the A10, then there also needs to be a segregated route on the A10?

I am asking this because, being pragmatic, and considering the massive cost of building a segregated lane on A10 -which isn't the busiest of A roads especially between Dalston and Shoreditch, a decent quietway would enable people to travel to and from hackney to the centre)

I know we are going round in circles Nic

I genuinely think this discussion has been positive and not circular. My position has shifted somewhat since @cyclelove threw the gauntlet down.

I am asking this because, being pragmatic, and considering the massive cost of building a segregated lane on A10 -which isn't the busiest of A roads especially between Dalston and Shoreditch, a decent quietway would enable people to travel to and from hackney to the centre)

Fair point, but I have rarely if ever used the A10, I don't know enough about it's utility to make a sensible contribution. Sorry if that sounds evasive but I'm a westerner. I can say that if the road is similar to the A5 through Maida Vale and Kilburn then I would definitely support segregated lanes.

Shifted? Can you elaborate?