League VII seeding results

It is hard for new people/teams to make a judgement around seeding vote. Some of the new people may choose not to vote based on that. Based on that it makes sense not to count the vote on people's own team when they are placed last.

I think the teams most affected are the Middle teams as this is where the cut off is between division 1 and 2 and maybe there should be a pre-league knock-out tourney of the 4 Middle teams.

Or if one team from division 2 believes that they should be division 1 they should challenge the last team of div1 for a knock out game to steal their place before the league starts

But both will mean starting everything early.

Also we need to remember the league is organised by people who are willing to put time in it and being over critical may put them off from doing it ; what I mean is maybe all these should be considered but should also acknowledge it's an evolving process

This is a super good point, working out an average rank would be fairer.

We've really got three leagues worth of ability levels but only two leagues worth of teams. I do like the idea of a preseason play off for next year though.

I'm out of the M-Comm so any future decisions will be made by Chukker and Max.
Happy to abide by whatever decisions they make

I think 3 or 2 leagues will depend on what the aim is for the London league. If it is to encourage as many people to play then 2 leagues should be. If it is to have likes-with-likes there aren't enough for 3 leagues and will create even a bigger exclusion and dichotomy.

There are invite only tourneys and beginners tourneys for more like-to-like competitions. Would be nice for the winter league to be on including and encouraging people to play over winter. Yes there will be a difference in ability. That's why some teams will fight for first place and others will fight for not finishing last.

And yes the middle teams may be suffering the most but surely there is a way to make the middle teams feel ranking is fair without excluding others.

I say play-offs before the league for the 4 Middle teams.

Or an extension of the league where at the end there are games for the three last of div1 against the 3 first of div 2. As a separate mini league.

Or an extension of the league where at the end there are games for the three last of div1 against the 3 first of div 2. As a separate mini league.>

That'll be great if we could make it happen every year after the league finishes. But that was the intention last year but never happened although most or all the teams from div 2 were up for it and really wanting to make it happen ...

In the current system each team gets the same number of votes.

Each person ranks the 12 other teams. I just delete all the all values of 13 from each ranking. If there are 22 voters then each team is ranked by 22 people. The ranking is the average across the 22 votes. It is very straightforward.

Okay, so the decision has been made. The #preseasonplayoff is confirmed for Fri 7 Nov, Mitch, 7pm. League begins on 8 Nov. Full details in the updated OP.

In running this league process and outcome can be frustrating. We are still working out the kinks of a diy, first-in-the-world league. I think we make progress every year. Go LPC.

About next year. A plan is in post #37. Here is the short version.

1) If an even number of teams, then there will be an automatic preseason playoff between the middle two teams.

2) If an odd number of teams, then there will be an automatic preseason playoff between the middle three teams.

3) If there are teams above or below either of these that are in an effective tie,* then they will also be in the preseason playoff.

*Effective tie: A team within one ranking away from the lowest of the top (e.g. if 12 teams, then -6 or closer to the 6th place team) or the highest of the bottom (+7 or closer from the 7th place team).

Yay

really stoked for this and how the playoff has been sorted. seems the only teams not moaning about the split are the ones who actually are involved in the playoff and who really should be the ones maybe disgruntled.
my other point is all the count and points system really doesn't work because it's not very hard for people to heavily low rank people that they think will be around them. therefore giving teams more points than they should. it's sneaky tactics but in the end people aren't exactly honest 24/7
I wouldn't mind seeing the ranking done on a previous league or tournament results. as this would actually give a solid representation of most teams in the league especially when there are mix matches tournament teams! would only be difficult for new players but I think there would be a very small exception that a team of new players or 2/3rds new players would be good enough to play in a top division

John H did seedings of the first 'merit split' league a few years back based on people's Podium rankings and also took into account other results from tournaments that summer... which after all had been settled IIRC was also not without some rancour, e.g. John, Dean and Sandy were placed in the top league, but Ali, Iain and Dan were in the second division, because they hadnt played over the summer. There was no pre-season playoffs. Their team Wooden Skulls won every single game in that lower division. They were also extremely magnanimous and got on with playing every game after the seeding had been done and were a credit to London polo despite being way above the skill level of most other teams they played.

If you think that it's a better way of doing it, there's a vacancy in the stats nerd position of the LPC if you want to apply for it...!!

We have an objective system for discounting votes where people appear to be gaming the system. This was explained in post #37. It is:

"Any vote where any team is ranked more than 3 places away from its modal rank will be discounted."

The mode is the ranking each team received most. If someone votes a team more than three places away from its modal rank, then the entire vote of that person is discounted.

This year there were three people who were outliers on this measure (in each case only for one team). But I looked at rankings including and excluding these three votes, and the rankings were identical. So the three outlier votes washed out in the overall average, and I thus only presented ranking including all votes (i.e. I did not exclude any votes).

I think this is a sound method for dealing with gaming.

I am happy to share the Excel file if anyone wants to have a look and play around with the data.

Interestingly, Jokes and Bourgies were in a dead tie (the exact same number of points) under both rankings: All teams and with the three outlier votes excluded.

If you think that it's a better way of doing it, there's a vacancy in the stats nerd position of the LPC if you want to apply for it...!!>

LOL.

Can I ask if we can have the first round released before next Friday? We might have some problems with free days so would like to try to organise a bit early if possible?

I doubt either of the teams in the playoff will play differently because of their first round game!? :)

Yeah I suppose I can use placeholders for the two spots and do the random assignment of fixtures using those.

Last year we were trying to do postseason playoff for last three in div1 and first three in div2. I think it did not happen because it was proposed at the end of the league and people planned things already.

Since we have less teams/fixtures this year I think we have extra time to do it this season at the end of the league. As this would be announced before the league starts.

It would only take either 3 extra fixtures or 6-team weekend-day tournament.

From the previous suggestions I believe this will make the split of mid-teams less ultimate and both divisions of the league more competitive.

The post season playoff didn't work last year. Few teams showed interest. I think the preseason playoff is the way forward. Next year it will be between 2 and 6 teams. We will make time for it by being sure to start in September.

You are welcome to organize a post season playoff.

I see your point: too many playoffs. Sure the preseason one is more exciting, therefore should include wider range of teams. Rather than depending on how the (opinion) votes are close to each other maybe it would be more fair to decide the minimum number of playoff teams before the vote.

This year two teams are in playoff. That's a good start! I will also organise some games after the league since it is the only chance for mid-teams to meet. I think last year 4 out of 6 were willing to do it.

lets have a league to decide the rankings of the league and then another mini league after the league to give everyone a second chance who reckons they wuz robbed in the second league. Or the first league. Because if you wuz robbed in the first league then the second league would've been well unfair because the second league's seedings were wrong which would make the first league invalid AND the second league invalid so the third mini league would be important in making the rankings right..... for the fourth league which would be vital just to make sure it is all 100% ok. BUT if Luca's team won two leagues and Badgers team won two leagues then we would have to have a fifth league to make sure we 100% knew who was the actual winner of THE LEAGUE but by the time that league had finished we would be on to next years league and the whole process could start all over again.

get me

Yo Dawg, I heard you like leagues.....

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Ben that system is totally unfair. You are such a dick.

Our team name is Schlong Slots. (Team 10 - currently listed as Louis)
Thanks.

Can you please take this a little more seriously kev? This is THE LEAGUE. No jokes allowed

#dictatorgonnadictate

I am ready to release the first fixture but I will not do so until all the teams have names.

@SteadyCam @spikes @Elliot (?) @mani (?)

Please can someone post or pm me the forum handles of one responsible and forum-active person from each of these teams:

TBC (Mani/Sam/Aleks)
TBC (Elliot/Dan/Charlie)