Psychiatry, psychology, mental, mind matters

It's a philosophical question unfortunately.

But there's been some nice articles in New Scientist, among others on it:

http://www.newscientist.com/special/self

A lot of Eastern philosophy has stated for a long the "the" self is an illusion. But it's all we can work with atm, no matter what you call it... ;)

All of that makes me think that therapy can be seen, but not told, as a sort of religion.

Nice summary for non philosophers on consciousness and the philosophy of mind
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/21/-sp-why-cant-worlds-greatest-minds-solve-mystery-consciousness

No. Therapy doesn't rely on the supernatural.

However, it ought to be more evidence based ideally. And there is the snag: Will the biological model (drugs + brain scans) lead the way?
Or do we have to go with the programming (how people see themselves, which is groupeable but subjective and harder to "prove" effectiveness?)

And even picking that is subjective, I would not take anti-depressants unless nothing else that's not drug based works. That's my programming.

Ideal there's a set of choices that are all backed by hard evidence + a clear clinical pathway on which one is best (like with many diseases)

Not there yet...

There's more evidence for CBT efficacy than any psychiatric drug.

At the risk of sounding like a CBT cynic, which I'm really not, I wonder how much quality evidence exists about CBT use alone, particularly when CBT and drugs are usually used simultaneously (esp for more severe conditions)?

Seriously? There's so much it's overwhelming, CBT on its own has been proven so many times through RCT's to be better than any anti-depressant / anxiety medication.

Beck, Padesky, Grant, Westcliffe just to mention a few. Don't forget CBT is an umbrella term that also includes 3rd wave therapies such as Mindfulness, ACT, Art therapies and Tarriers and Nicholas' amazing work with complex case suicide, psychosis and Schizophrenia.

Well, the donations are pretty high and consistent; once the faithful start the doctrine they stick with that for ages if not forever; the quality of the sermon seems good and it tells a lot and all(actually you tell them, but doesn't matter now, lets not confuse) then obviously it depends; the more the time passes and the more elements comes up telling more and more, still not sure about everything but better than before and with a bit of faith we can pray less for a better tomorrow; nowadays the internet can be an efficient test for quality control and plenty of informations about CBT, also free.

I dunno, but if you like gambling and you don't mind to be blindfolded you can have your own church, if you deserve it if not you can just be part of it, and it's all legal.

Do churches do RCT's? Unlike the religious leaders - CBT researchers actually try to prove that CBT doesn't work.

That's because the CBT are better.

Hmmm not sure if trolling.

Yes, now when someone doesn't agree, or on the opposite side, or tiny bit on left, or just telling stories, trolling is how correctly our society tells you and allows you to indicate him. Or her.

Sorry dude, too deep / highbrow for me, I'm out.

Don't use me as an excuse. And BTW, it's me the ill.

Seriously? There's so much it's overwhelming, CBT on its own has been proven so many times through RCT's to be better than any anti-depressant / anxiety medication.

It has been "proven" according to the deeply biased opinions of CBT proponents. No reputable study has shown it to be better than the placebo effect in the long term (and in the short term almost any therapy which gives close attention to a patient can be shown to give short term benefits, including "past life regression". News flash: NHS practitioners of evidence-based medicine are often too over-burdened to give the same attention to their patients as privately funded witch doctors. In the short term, witch doctors can make a patient feel better. When they relapse in the long term the genuine doctors get the blame.)

@itsbruce, I wish this weren't true.

In a similar way, it recently seems that anyone with any kind of psychological, emotional, stress, and/or anxiety issues (as well as some physical complaints, for that matter) is being offered mindfulness, or strongly encouraged to use it at home, usually in parallel with other treatments where needed.

There have always been buzzwords and trends in psychology though - psychoanalysis and behaviorism being obvious examples.

One of the most worrying things about CBT isn't whether it is effective in the short term, difficult as it is for that to be shown (therapy is very tricky to do double blind studies in, not that CBT advocates care about such rigour - not aiming arrows at @bluebikerider, just decrying the general flock). In fact, if it doesn't work at all, that's a triviality. If it does work, even in the short term, is it an appropriate technique? CBT entirely, explicitly ignores the cause of a problem and treats only the symptom. It does nothing to address the source of a condition; it only suppresses the public expression of it. Well, so would a lobotomy. I do hope we have progressed beyond thinking lobotomies a good thing.

Would be good to see more studies like this: Brain scans predict effectiveness of talk therapy to treat depression http://bit.ly/1ub79Qc

Also, today (Thursday 5th Feb) it's Time To Talk Day: http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/timetotalkday - get involved!

If you didn't know about Time To Change, it's an anti-stigma towards mental health campaign run by the leading charities Mind and Rethink Mental Illness.

Well, my two cents, I think (no hard proof in the scientific study area) you are correct CBT doesn't address long standing issues.

However, if the issue is mostly what they call "coping skills" (how to cope with stress, emotions etc.) I'd say it can help you reduce stress by giving people the tools to help cope. There's not always "A" cause, sometimes you pick up bad habits.

But, if it's a very deep standing issue on how you see yourself/past trauma, it's just plastering over the cracks.

So how does a health professional know...you'd need some test for it, instead of "go have CBT, if it doesn't work, eh, pills/whatever".

I certainly have no objection to treating the symptoms. Doctors do that all the time. My worry is that CBT has been accepted as a cure rather than an analgesic.

I think it can be a cure if the issue is:

Lack of coping skills/bad habits > swap habits > less stress.

IF and ONLY IF there's no underlying issue that you can't deal with by changing habits.

F.E. if you are stressed to the hilt, but you have a ton of bad habits meditation and a stress diary may well solve the issue. But if you have an underlying anxiety problem due to agoraphobia that comes from a past trauma...you may need to dig deeper.

Ultimately you need a way to measure what's what, and psychology in my experience doesn't necessarily have it, therapists go by what works in their experience but if that doesn't work for you, you are off to somebody else which is all nice and well if you can/the issue isn't so massively impacting is must be solved NOW...but NHS services are utter shite in many parts of the UK.

Just to move the thread on a bit, and because I was genuinely suprised...

My other hobby / sport is target shooting. This is a discipline which relies very much on stillness and relaxation, it's very much a mental game (think golf, but way more boring). In a recent article on how to "shut out the noise of external factors" the author talks about Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) and Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) as possible techniques to quell anxiety. (She also talks about the importance of visualisation, and how useful Mindfulness Medication is).

I don't know much about EMDR and EFT but I was suprised that she mentioned techniques like those in connection with such an important subject. I would have thought that there were much more effective things for reducing anxiety and "the jips" in a situation like that.

I feel like I'm about to drop a piece of meat into a tank full of pirahna fish, but has anyone got any thoughts on the above techniques?

has anyone got any thoughts on the above techniques?

No, but...

I feel like I'm about to drop a piece of meat into a tank full of pirahna fish

I think Creepy Bond-villain Therapy is an idea worth pursuing.

^^ i don't know anything about those techniques but anything that could reduce anxiety, tension, stress makes sense doesn't it? Beta blockers and even benzos are the performance enhancer of choice in sports /games like that right?