Belt Driven, Hub Geared, Rack Mountable Nippy Commuter - Frameset?

Main problem with the Genesis is track-ends + disc brakes (and potentially mudguards).

You need to loosen off the rear brake caliper in order to slider the wheel forward and remove the belt/chain.

Rear wheel changes would already be fiddly though, as you also need to disconnect a cable from the Alfine too.

But with a belt drive, decent tyres, and internal gear, how often is that going to be a problem? Integrated tensioners too, with quick release things on the mudguards... Not really going to be that much of a drama?

I've got a couple of 853 bikes (soon to be 3 when I've assembled the road bike) and I would live with a bit of fiddling for the awesome ride quality of the tubeset.

Looks like the angle of the caliper mounts would allow rear removal without issue as well.

I was basing what I said on the last comment in the comments section of this review: http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/cyclo-cross/product/review-genesis-bikes-day-one-disc-13-47398/

@timetheringtonjudge
Should be clear I ride one of these and work for Genesis.
It isn't necessary to remove the whole caliper to remove the rear wheel. Just loosen the IS mounting bolts and allow the brake adapter to move backwards - the rotor will clear the caliper happily. Accept is not ideal and still a faff but moving caliper to inboard mount is even trickier due to lack of clearance on caliper and seatstays and inaccessibility of chain tensioning screw.

Main problem with the Genesis is track-ends + disc brakes (and potentially mudguards).

You need to loosen off the rear brake caliper in order to slider the wheel forward and remove the belt/chain.

Rear wheel changes would already be fiddly though, as you also need to disconnect a cable from the Alfine too.

Use sks mudguards and use the mounts intended for the front wheel at the back. The guard can then be popped out giving room for the wheel to move backwards and out of the drop outs. I've never had to touch the brake caliper to remove the rear wheel. I've also found it unnecessary to disconnect the gear cable to change an inner tube... Bike upside down, then remover the wheel and lay it flat across the underside of the chain stays with the gear cable side of the hub facing the floor.

The Genesis 853 frames are great... Go for it!

For that money he could have the 853 Genesis...

Well, yeah, obvs. Both of those frame are equally rad - but personally I think the EBB and vertical drop-outs is a neater solution when disc brakes are involved.

It would be interesting to know if the EBB and the Gen's track ends are good enough for setting belt tension though.

I'm not looking at this from a puncture fixing perspective - I hardly ever remove a wheel to fix them - more from an engineering and general maintenance standpoint.

Charge Mixer is also similar, has EBB and vertical dropouts,disc mounts, external routing for alfine. Not available as a frameset though. Also think it has been discontinued.

The EBB it comes with is rubbish. Two set screw. Holds fine, but a pain to adjust. Carver EBB fits in the same shell though.

I'd go for rocker dropouts, probably the Paragon ones.

They seem to have all the benefits of a vertical dropout entry, fixed position relative to the disc rotor, mudguard etc etc.

I had a Mixer - never had any problems with setting chain tension. But that's chain tension. Belt tension is trickier. Or so I've heard.

Rocker drops look amazing - is there a variant with a set-screw? I'd imagine you'd need one for setting the belt tension.

I guess to me, 4130 and 853 are incomparable, but that's just me. I'd rather faff with the dropouts a little and have the better material alot.

Stupid question: could someone with brazing skillz retrofit those dropouts onto an existing frame?

Yes - but could be pricey as the stays would need some manipulation. Or something.

There is a newer toggle drop version. Set tension with a thing you twist, and then lock it into place.

I've never had much of an issue tensioning my CDX belt. Tensioned it initially using a bass guitar tuning and plucking it. Then got a feel for the up/down deflection at that tension.

Have just been setting it based on that ever since, haven't bothered using the tuner again. Not had any issues with belt skipping

http://www.vannicholas.com/73/Yukon_Rohloff/bike.aspx

No disc rear though, but could have one on the front

Progress?

Am waiting on Genesis to get back to me regarding the steel used in the stays, frame builder I approached to split the frame wanted to know the diameter and grade of steel.

Seems unlikely the frame is entirely 853.

Am also a little concerned that splitting a seat stay combined with a loaded rear rack would perhaps put a lot of stress on the split, not sure if the split becomes a weak point in the frame, or if it's nothing to worry about.

On my new bike I've decided (possibly because I am a lunatic) to put front panniers on the rear rack (can't mount anything on the carbon fork) and then use a trailer to mount the rear panniers on.

This means that you don't have anything massively heavy on the bike itself, you have plenty of heel clearance, and the trailer takes less than 5 seconds to remove when you reach your destination.

Here is said trailer mounted on my CX bike for it's so far only ever trip:

Surly the pull on the stay braze ons is pretty minimal? Isn't it mainly for steadying the load with most of the weight sitting over the axel?

My two penneth;
Another Genesis but this time the Fortitude..

http://www.freeborn.co.uk/genesis-fortitude-adventure-frame-deep-green-lime?gclid=CKbm3enoo70CFYGv2wodjTUATg

Surely that's a bit OTT for commuting?

It's pretty light (Reynolds 725) and certainly nippy enough with some sensible tyres on. Other than that it'll fit racks, bottles and discs and should it ever be surplus to commuting requirement, get it out on some trails!

it's worth pointing out that branded tubing can be made to feel truly awful if not made correctly and the geometry is wrong. Simple 4130 can be made to feel really quite nice and you know that all the tubing is the same as i'm quite sure that Genesis do not use the same tubing for the front triangle as they do in the stays. the Singular Peregrine would be my choice or maybe even a Straggler?

So it took a little longer than anticipated, but figured I'd update this thread with the progress. Pretty much there, only ridden up and down the road.

Forgive the shoddy cable routing, that's one of the last few tasks this weekend (ran out of cable ties)

Todo: Paint modded seatstay, cable routing, mudguards (and rack when required)

Big thanks to Fitzrovia Cycles for the frameset, Donhou Bicycles for the belt drive mod and August Wheelworks for the bombproof wheelset.

I bet those spyres are pretty snappy with those leavers?