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Always great to see that Sam is aware of the comments, takes them on board and looks to further develop his bikes.
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^ this
And pls ~~dont ~~stop making osprey
Just improve it and work out the kinks.
It's interesting reading this thread from the start. You see that there are actually very few bikes that fit the brief, pacer, all-city, and the osprey.
Personally I like the idea of something more modern like the All-City or a Condor Fratello.
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Nice one Sam, thanks for taking the time to go over everything. I can totally understand all the reasons for the various quirks, and as you've said because of available parts etc really the only thing you could fully control is the chainstay length.
I know the changes I'd make (external top tube cable stops, normal plastic BB cable guide etc.) but most of them would affect the look of the bike somewhat. And none of them are deal breakers in practice. I'm really pleased with how the bike rides, so I'm a little surprised that it's not sold well, and I'm sorry to hear that.
One thing I would offer is that to my eye the large downtube graphic looks a bit out of step with the overall style of the frame, it's got a rather modern / over-designed look to it that's at odds with the rather 1950s paint, lugged contruction, etc. If I were buying one new that graphic would probably have put me off a bit, to be honest. Not that it should look like everything else out there, of course.
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It's interesting reading this thread from the start. You see that there are actually very few bikes that fit the brief, pacer, all-city, and the osprey.
Personally I like the idea of something more modern like the All-City or a Condor Fratello.
I started to have doubts about the All-City. Partly the PF30 thing. But I also read a couple of reviews that questioned the quality of its handling a bit. The Osprey certainly has nicer geometry IMO.
The Fratello is definitely a nice bike (I built one up for a friend), but it's a bit pricey next to the others. And I'm not totally convinced about the image. Or the sloping top tube.
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Keep having thoughts about swapping the frame for a Pacer now the red ones are in the UK.
Deflating the rear wheel and the turbo wheel every time I swap them over is getting a bit old. Plus I can't get the brakes to stay still. And the front mudguard keeps wanting to rub on the tyre slightly (which I'm surprised at - I think it's dropping down a bit).
I dunno. It is nice to ride.
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Reading ^ up there about squirming front end thing...
I notice you're on Deda RHM01 44cm bars? I've recently fitted them (42cm version) to my winter bike and they've certainly got a lot more flex then the FSA Vero(?) 40cm bars on my summer bike. I'm not sure if that would contribute to the issue.
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^^ I can't get the bolt tight enough for them not to move easily (well, I possibly could, but it would be more torque than I would want to put in). At the front I think it's because it's spaced out so much. The rear's not so bad. I mean, they stay centred, but you can easily move them by hand.
The mushy rear braking is another thing. It works ok, I just don't like the way it feels.
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Reading ^ up there about squirming front end thing...
I notice you're on Deda RHM01 44cm bars? I've recently fitted them (42cm version) to my winter bike and they've certainly got a lot more flex then the FSA Vero(?) 40cm bars on my summer bike. I'm not sure if that would contribute to the issue.
No, I resolved that, it was the tyre pressures being too high. Particularly on greasy winter roads. The bars don't seem too flexy to me. The whole front end seems more than stiff enough, actually.
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I'm not expecting the Pacer to ride any better. But I would expect it not to have some of the same niggles (since it has vertical dropouts, external top tube cable bosses, etc). I don't think there's a new Osprey on the way (in the sense of a practical road bike with mudguard clearances, rack mounts etc.) and to be honest I don't think I could afford a new one anyway. The Surly is pretty cheap.
I dunno, I'm very undecided, just thinking out loud. The vast majority of my riding time is on this bike at the moment and certain things are irritating me just a tiny bit every time. If I wasn't swapping the wheels over so often it wouldn't be so bothersome.
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Ha. There's a whole other kettle of worms.
Currently I have four bikes (nice fixed, winter fixed, nice road bike, winter road bike) but when I move there's every chance it'll have to come back down to two or three. A single mudguard-equipped road bike could be the solution, but I'm not sure I'd want to spend custom money on something that's going to get trashed in the winter.
Anyway: it's a moot point. The sun's out so I ought to fit the rear derailleur back on the Colnago and ride that as much as possible.
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sell singular frame only and get this?
Same price for full custom geo and outside eBay discount if you contact them at hello at wittson dot com
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What frame size do you usually ride Regal?
You'd be very welcome to take my Path Racer for a spin, see if that suited you.
It's meant to fulfil nice fixed+winter fixed duties.
I'm quite happy with the two fixed bikes on the whole (and I need a relatively modest bike that I can lock up, which is the Bob Jackson - it also has security bolts and so on), it was more the Time Machine that got me thinking actually. One thing with the Colnago is that in all likelihood neither the bonding nor the alu will last forever - if it cracks or starts to separate I'm already thinking that I could transplant the fork and headset to a custom steel frame with identical geometry (as it really does handle beautifully). But if I could have a single bike that replaced that and also performed winter duties, possibly with discs, that could be something that worked for me.
Re: sizing, I have slight T-rex tendencies so I tend to ride either a trad 58 with a slammed-ish 10cm stem and an inline post (the 'nag & the Bob) or a 56/57 with an 11cm stem and/or a layback. The Osprey is 56.5 top tube with a 10cm stem as I wanted it a little more relaxed. (The Feather is 55.5cm top tube with an 11cm equivalent stem and a layback - the benefits of custom in evidence there.)
You can see how many spacers I've got already on the Osprey - which has a 57cm ctc seat tube and a 159mm headtube. The 58cm Pacer has a fully 58cm top tube and a 154mm headtube with roughly the same seat tube. The 56 Pacer has a 56.5 TT but a weeny 136mm headtube. I could do a 58 Pacer but unless I flipped the stem it would be another 5mm spacers and possibly a shorter stem (dipping under 100mm, ugh). Maybe I should just style out the 58. I should be able to replicate the Colnago's position.
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sell singular frame only and get this?
Same price for full custom geo and outside eBay discount if you contact them at hello at wittson dot com
Are Rychtarskis made by the same guy that builds the Wittson frames? Interesting. Still a bit too pricey for this, maybe. I have to keep reining the costs in. ;)
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was there a reason you dismissed an equilibrium? I had a one and a pacer, the equilibrium headtube seemed a lot longer. I found it a much better ride. And with the long drop brakes tyre size was less limited and mudguard fitting less fiddly.
Yeah, now they do it in red it's back on the radar. I really didn't like the cream coloured one. The geometry certainly suits me better and I'm sure it'll be a lot lighter. If it has comparable clearance I'll check one out. A friend has one and is very happy with it.
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^^ They are made by Mr. Rychtarski using Columbus Cromor. Wittson guys are just middlemen I guess. I have a Rychtarski myself and the person who originally commissioned it directly with Rychtarski said apart from communication issues he had no problems. I guess these (wittson) guys are taking care of communications.
I dont think its expensive for a full custom frame made by a reputed builder. Other value for money custom option is Condor. They charge £100 extra for full custom geo the only minus point is 20 week wait; could also be ideal as a slow project which can be finished in winter.
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About
Singular Osprey & Genesis Equilibrium: winter road bike build
Posted by
@Regal
Looking great and glad you are pleased with the bike having got it together. Just to try to address a few of the issues you ran across during your build.
Internal rear brake cable routing. I wanted to route it internally, really for aesthetic reasons. The only way to do this and not end up with a nightmare trying to fit and replace brake cables is to run full outer all the way. In my experience this can give a somewhat mushy feel to the rear brake but does not significantly degrade actual performance.
Fork crown brake mounting issue. This is an issue with some brake and headset combinations but not all. Ideally the crown would be a little deeper. This is an issue with the lugset which I have fed back to the manufacturer (Long Shen) and may well be changed in future. Ultimately there are only a limited rage of lug sets available and my choices are constrained further by the tubing and fork type I wanted to achieve.
Bottom bracket cable guides - again, this is a result of the lugset and not something I can do much about. As noted above using a plastic sleeve over the cable will give a smoother run and prevent wear to the paint.
Rear wheel clearance. This is one I do have to hold my hands up and say it is a bit too tight when using both large tyres and mudguards. The chainstays should really be about 5mm longer.
Sadly, overall the Osprey has not sold well, although those who have them seem very happy with them. For this reason they are being phased out and will hopefully be replaced with another road frame which will be rather more modern in style and function. So if anyone wants one of the remaining current Ospreys drop me a line and I'm sure I can sort out a good deal.