Strength / Weight Training

Heard the other day that wide-grip, neutral and narrow don't make any difference to lat development if you're doing pull ups

That’s not true really... in all cases your lats are working for sure but they are not working at the same percentage if you are doing wide or neutral/narrow. Rule of thumb, the wider you go the more your lats are engaged and the least your synergists (biceps, chest) are helping the movement. Also wider grips put less stress on the shoulders which is something to consider.

Ok then if you have the forearms of a ambidextrous serial masturbator, then wide grip pull Up or negatives are the best. Most of the emphasis will be on the back. For negatives, the slower the better. They are not fun....essentric work is hard and boring....

Boring? You're talking to a guy that stared at a brick wall for hours on his turbo to get used to long, straight stretches of unchanging road...

There's sloping grip bits on the pull up bar thing at the gym but I tend to only use it in between squats or deads. It's a prize bit of kit.

And focus on form. It's easy to bounce a little at the bottom of pulls or chins rather than starting from a dead hang.
Scapular pull ups also help to get the first bit of movement and focus on lats.
And keep some tension in your core while doing both. Slightly pointed toes helps me keep my legs straight and core working.

So when do we get onto muscle ups?

I can't do those... the ceiling is too low :)

Always wanted to be able to do them. Can't even get close :)

It's as much learning the movement as it is strength. It's a different movement to a pull up. More explosive. Not quite kipping but it's not just straight up either, you're going up a little bit away from the bar so that you can then go over the top of it and push. And a different grip, further over the top of the bar so that you're not having to adjust half way up to turn the pull into a push.

Realise that's not really very descriptive and it was a bit of a rhetorical question anyway

What's a negative?

Jump up, lower down slowly

Or more generally, resisting the opposite direction of movement. Rather than pushing a bar up you lower it slowly.
Rather than a pull up you jump into it and then lower down slowly

Re: DOMS - should it not gradually get better? I have incorporated weight training for 3 months now in an attempt (3X weekly) to get back from an injury. Have focused esp. on posterior chain exercises but honestly cannot remember a day this year when my hamstrings didn't hurt. Noticed more twinges in my calves when pushing on the bike too. Is this just "beginners DOMS" or am I overdoing it?

Possibly too obvious a question but are you stretching properly?

Since I started deadlifts in the summer, I’ve had to be much stricter about stretching properly before and afterwards and in general every day.

It could also be a case of cyclist legs... or the two things working against each other or something. Your hams are probably going through massive adaptation but eventually they shouldn’t hurt for days afterwards and you should be more flexible... Seems to take a while to get there, though.

How often are you deadlifting?

Just to be contentious, I don’t stretch but I always ensure I am warmed up for weights. Do you warm up or is you gym warm?

Might be worth trying BCAA tablets as they ‘seemed’ to stop any DOMS issues I had. I’ve been taking them on and off for a couple of years and currently have been taking them for a few months - no DOMS issues at all.

I think there's evidence that BCAAs help with DOMS but stretching does not. But stretching often feels good so it might be worth doing anyway. Don't ask for references JFGI :)

Deadlifting on average 3 times a week, have been good with stretching after (not before)

Yeah always do 5/10 minutes on the Erg before I do any weights. Yeah will order some, have considered BCAA for a while
Cheers

That's a lot of deadlifting, especially if you're hitting appreciably heavy weights! Are you sure its not just the fact you're battering your hamstrings and not letting them recover properly causing the soreness rather than the more classic DOMs you'd expect to get after a single session overreaching?

Other things I'd check - how's sleep/calories/protein intake?

That's too much. Deadlift is a really good lift, but once you get strong in it, it will start eating in your recovery badly.

Squat once a week, deadlift once a week, squat/deadlift variations (hack squat, front squat, change deadlift stance, go a bit higher reps) is plenty.

Thanks for the advice @JWestland @Ptown . I naively thought as long as there was a day between sessions this would be enough for recovery. It got me worried as my hamstring (L) and calf (L) got twinged a few rides ago when climbing and I was worried if old injuries were back, but I guess it could just be seriously fatigued legs?

Yeah I would say deadlift once a week. I try to squat every time I am at the gym, or if not (no free rack) then at least another exercise that engages the legs. that works for me as if I squat once a week I get DOMS, if I squat three times a week, once the initial DOMS are gone, I dont get them at all.

Yeah, I'd say the fatigue will be making them very twinge-prone. Don't get me wrong, you definitely can deadlift three times a week but you've gotta be smart with how you handle the volume and intensity.

you joke right?

Do a day of one then a few weeks later, the other. feel the burn in different places.

Yeah, kinda. I just don't incorporate chin-ups as part of my training, that's all. The circuit I do involves pull-ups but I have weights at home for random bicep curls. Still, it's not really something I need to be training much – more press variations, hangs, posterior stuff. 30 mins of roof-climbing over 1 week > pull-ups a few times a week.

Wide grip pull-ups > Making full use of the chin-up bar is particularly effective for activating the lats and the teres minor, building a quality v-taper.
Close grip pull-ups > Bringing the hands closer together tends to shift the focus to the inner lats and the lower traps, which is awesome for developing thickness and a ‘3D-look’.

Ive recently started doing both. Wide first as they are much more difficult. It has definitely had a massive effect on my overall shape. Also, its like curling 45kg d/b's

So in my experience deadlifying three times a week is just not ok. Twice kills me, and that was heavy work (2x bodyweight) and speed work with lighter weights, pretty standard fare.

How would you program 3x a week?