Falmouth University

My 2p (as a practicing designer, who went to art college): If your daughter hasn't even completed a foundation I wouldn't give too much thought as to the career prospects or any of the other trash being talked here - it's simply not relevant yet.

After a year of foundation it could be that she will decide to pack it all in and do a more academic subject. Or she could decide that she is most interested in visual communication, design engineering, architecture, 3D graphics .. or any number of 'arts' careers that have clear career paths and prospects.

Don't burden her with tales of woe from fine art graduates - support her and let her find her own path (which, to be fair - it sounds like you are already doing). Sure, some people will struggle to find their own paths after university, but that isn't course-specific - that's just life.

The fact that Fine Art isn't a particularly vocational degree is largely irrelevant (neither is English, or History - but you don't hear anyone saying those are pointless subjects to study. How many people go on to become historians? Very few) - it can lead you to a career working for galleries, cultural institutions, publishing, the civil service etc etc. I know plenty of people who studied Fine Art, and while very few of them are successful artists, the majority of them have found successful careers in related fields, which use the skills and knowledge they acquired at University.

Falmouth has an excellent reputation - I can also personally recommend Brighton as I studied there and loved every minute of the three years I lived there.

Yep I really would recommend doing a foundation in london. really worth while

I need my girl to get through AS levels this month, stay on for A-levels in London (home) next year.

i have suggested somewhere outside London for an Art Foundation course
before committing to Falmouth for a degree.

she is so fed up with London (and home), but i have persuaded her not to rush but crawl, walk, run... then fly..

thanks everyone for your input.. if my girl ends up being a great artist or designer i'll have you all to thank btw she is reading all your posts :)

I grew up in cornwall. I wouldnt wish it on anyone.

I don't know who's talking trash or peddling tales of woe but I'm referring specifically to fine arts subjects like painting, printmaking, sculpture and environmental art etc.

I think it's worth pointing out that employers like quantifiable skills and grades, and given the choice between a fine art graduate or a graduate in English Lit or similar Arts faculty subject from a Uni will be more comfortable with the uni candidate because its more of a known quantity. Again, this is generalised but made from a position of personal experience as I have a 1st from a red brick uni as well as a 1st class fine art degree with distinctions and awards attached. Depending on jobs i apply for I will now put on or the other degree on my CV, rarely both, as experience has shown that applying for 'professional' positions with the fine art one on it equals no callback, whereas this is not the case if applying to a similar postion with the Uni degree. The most difficult thing I've found is being in a job that gives me the flexibility and freedom to work on art exhibitions or projects as and when they come up but that isn't soul-destroyingly boring.

also worth noting is that design ≠ fine art and you'll most likely be applying for positions that are specifically targeting those qualifications, not so with fine art subjects like painting, environmental art, so I think it's fair to say that's a separate question.

I'm not at all saying that these degrees have no value, not by any stretch of the imagination-I learned far more about myself and worked far harder during my Fine Art course than at uni where i mostly coasted along-and think that employers should value fine arts graduates far far more than they seem to, but the hard truth is that employers looking at candidates with fine arts backgrounds (perhaps not so much with applied art subjects like design or vis comm) will warier about what they're getting than with an arts fac. degree like English or History. Maybe this is because with these subjects there is a greater emphasis on written communication, analysis and research and that in itself is a very bankable skill and it's one aspect of my Uni education that's very valuable in structuring and developing written arguments and conducting research. Compared to Uni i would say the expectations of students in fine art courses with regards to writing assignments is much lower, and also, there seemed to be a far higher percentage of highly dyslexic students in art school who had a highly acute ability to express themselves orally or visually but had appalling writing skills so might not even get to an interview situation where they can make a strong case for themselves because the recruiter has just seen a badly written application form.

With regards fine art degrees I would never say 'don't do it' and sincerely hope that what I've written doesn't come across as negative or an attempt to put your daughter off of following her dream, all I've tried to do is point out there's some very real considerations to be made that are easy to ignore when you're young but catch up with you as you get on.

So I would say, absolutely yes, explore fine art or design or whatever, but keep it in mind to also get some kind of a professional qualification before or after you graduate to help keep yourself afloat and have a more satisfying/rewarding day to day existence-I don't feel obliged to qualify this to the nth degree but I, and a lot of people i know, have enjoyed some success and it's been very satisfying, but post 2007, huge sections of the creative industries in the UK and Europe have been decimated by funding cuts and commercial downturn and I've friends in their 40's who have been with very well known commercial galleries, bought houses and had kids thinking they were set and that are now up shit creek and applying to every and any job to try and get by. Of course that's not limited to art, but success in art is very difficult to find and most often doesn't translate into £ unless you're very lucky, and it's not being a doom-merchant to point that out at an early stage and temper expectations slightly.

So yes, a foundation course will be useful in refining what her exact interests are and informing that decision-another thing worth mentioning is that the people who seem to get on best at art schools are a bit older than the rest and more focused as a result-the majority of the younger students in my class were too preoccupied with fulfilling the stereotype of munching drugs and being in weird electro bands etc to really give a shit-so it's no loss to take a few years out beforehand or do another course then go back into it with a stronger hand to play and sharpened ambitions.

In the end she'll find her own way sure enough, and it seems she's lucky to have a parent who's supportive of her and helping figure out what's the best option.

all the people i know that are doing well are sponsored by mummy and daddy and exploiting networks.

This and DFP's post are not a measure of what 'will' happen but more of a fairly bleak view of what 'might' happen.

Perhaps it's the exception but it does also happen that some people who undertake a degree in fine art do very well out of it. I did my degree in sculpture at Chelsea School of Art and ended up with a career in advertising over the past 18 years.

When I was at Chelsea Chris Ofili was there before going for his MA at the Royal College. His parents worked in a biscuit factory in Manchester (I know this because we shared a flat for a while and he used to sometimes bring back massive bags of broken biscuits) so he certainly didn't get financial support from them. He later went on to win the Turner Prize.

Another artist who had no support from his parents (them being Welsh farmers with a very basic smallholding) that was also at Chelsea then did his MA at The Slade is Simon Ling. Great guy and very talented painter, he's plugged away at it for 20 years and only now is starting to get the recognition his work deserves. The Tate are planning a show next year with him and 2 other artists.

My point being that the art world can be very unpredictable and finicky but if you stick at it and are genuinely talented quite often more good than not will come out of it. Personally, I also met and was inspired by some great tutors. Luck of the draw I guess but then that's why going somewhere like Falmouth with a great reputation should stack the draw in your favour.

Thanks for setting the record straight with your consistent blandishments and preference for stating the obvious VanUden.

From the time period you're talking about there were no tuition fees to speak of and government grants to rely on. But I'm glad Chris fed you some broken biscuits to add to your tales of sticking it to the man by looting during poll tax riots.

I've worked in enough commercial/public galleries to see first hand what a lot of relationships revolve around, and sadly talent comes quite low on the list of priorities compared to the pre-existing social connections or financial opportunities for them to exploit or get a reach-around off of.

Unlike the FTSE the art market has no kind of moral hazard laws to oblige people to declare conflicts of interest or personal affiliations, creating the nice situation where public funding is used like a slush fund to prime young artists for galleries and to cement the reputations of more established ones and it's ok for curators to go between these institutions and basically buy/sell work and inflate prices for their mates.

Of the two artists you mention-heartwarming and inspiring though their examples may be-there are thousands of other artsist who have sank without trace or lost their way in the daily grind, or, shudder, decided a career in advertising is a desirable career path. Happily for a minority the gamble pays off.

The sad thing is that the huge hike in tuition fees make is more and more difficult for people from modest backgrounds to pursue fine arts as there is less of a guarantee of financial return compared to other subjects. You can be guaranteed that the majority of the YBA's who came from working class backgrounds also went through the system at a time when government grants were still in place-and if you're talking about doing further study somewhere prestigious like the RCA, which is very hard to get into already, you're looking at finding another 9 grand tuition.

This means UK postgrads are increasingly dominated by very wealthy international and domestic students as a result and that's only going to continue unless something changes to restore some kind of parity.

We did have tuition fees to pay and this was during the time when grants were being phased out and student loans introduced. Most students left education with pretty hefty debts as a result.

Although being broke all the time was often offset by things like squatting, which was much easier back then than it is now. It wasn't very romantic for anyone who's never tried it - think no heating, damp, mould, and having to boil water on a 2 plate hob to shave or bathe.

Whatever your daughter decides to do almac, Falmouth seems like it could be an excellent choice and as you've already said you can help her to an extent financially it sounds like an opportunity too good for her to miss.

As for a degree in fine art there are lots of commercial applications especially in the design, advertising and communications industries for example, where if talented and persistent she could make a good living and still be creative. I wish her luck in whatever she decides!

I think a large pinch of salt is needed here.

I think a large pinch of salt is needed here.

If you mean with the squatting I'm not saying this is what all students did but myself and friends also at art school certainly did and mainly because we were trying to save as much money as possible, 1 in Barons Court for about a year and 1 on Storks Rd in Bermondsey for just under a year. They were both horrible but free. I could be wrong but I believe that because of changes to the law it's now much harder to squat empty properties.

I'd recommend going to art school in London as it's the best city pretty much in the world lol but since your girl's already from here it's probably less special than it was for a grass-chewing hick from the burbs like me

my daughter is contemplating bailing out of sixth form college at St Marylebone School.. she is so unhappy. can anyone recommend a college to further her A-levels, we live in Camden/Kilburn area. Ella is very bright and talented art student, also studying Eng Lit, Philosophy, probably dropping chemicals, i mean chemistry..

cheers
Almac xx