Is buying a 'vintage' frame worth it?

^^ You know there is also new steel? It's a lot like the old stuff only... Well better.

Going past the advances in metelugy in the last thirty years, you can get everything that old steel can do with new steel and in some cases more... As mentioned before disc brake tabs are good. Not all new bikes are alu and carbon.

There are two reasons for old steel. Fashion and cost. C'est tout.

(I think all but one of my bikes are steal, ranging from prewar sun/parkes tubing, through 70's Carlton and Dawes 531, to modern genesis, one-on and charge frames. Oh and the 70's holdsworth 501 that was my first fixed)

Like we keep saying....you're forgeting his budget...?

Be aware that anything you buy new...will depreciate like crazy and will be worth half the money in 6 months,

Depreciation should never be an issue. One needs to, however, distinguish between consumables and durables in bicycles.. A number of components should be replaced on used bicycles.. handlebars for example.. But we are talking about frames.. The new and used market are not really connected so sometimes one can get a new frame for a price that is hardly more than what a used one might cost.. The main reason to get a used frame is to get something that one wants that is no longer available...

A classic steel frame will be infinitely more enjoyable to tour on than anything new and aluminium, and will last about 30 years longer as well. Alu frames are prone to stress failure, and do this far more regularly than steel ever does. Steel is far more forgiving when touring too, as the material stretches and flexes in ways that Alu never does...which makes for a far more enjoyable ride.

This is horribly absurd. While a mild steel frame as common to Indian and Chinese roadsters can indeed last longer than any comtemporary racing frame, a properly made steel won't last longer than properly made alu or ti. The big difference between steel and alu is not the failure but the modus of failure. Steel fails more gracefully.
The problem we have seen with some Alu frames is not the material but the use of the material. A number of frames were quite simply "stupid light". Stupid light is not restricted to alloy but can be done with steel just as with carbon--- and there is a lot of "stupid light" carbon out there.

And old steel? During the bike boom of the 1970s a lot of very poorly made frames were thrown onto the market. The main reason that many of these frames are still around is that they were not ridden but spent most of their life in people's basement. Quality control of lower cost alu frames, by contrast, is typically much better many of cheap mass produced lightweight steel frames that one found in the 1970s and 1980s.

Does an old frame ride better? Again.. the opposite is probably the case.. A lot has advanced since the 1960s and 1970s.. This is especially true for larger frame sizes. Back when I started riding being tall was a big disadvantage as big frames were quite noodles. On my old 531DB steel frame my wife used to be shocked watching the bottom bracket sway when I pushed. First time she saw it she thought it looked dangerous and was scared as if the frame was going to buckle under during my sprint. Then came OS steel frames. My Merckx MXL does not sway! These days its no longer a disadvantage to have long legs. Riders are taller. Today's alu frames offer not only stiffness en par with my Merckx MXL but also lower weight. Don't get me wrong, I like steel and can give a number of arguments for a number of steel tubesets but in the early Y2K some of the most interesting frames were alu and not steel.

In the vertical there is hardly any difference btween my 531 frame and any of my modern steel and alu bikes. The difference is in the lateral stiffness.

My current stable of 4 steel bikes represents all of the above genres:

Early 90's Colnago, obtained for nought but spent £500 to restore, repaint and rechrome - nostalgia

Late 90's handbuilt British tourer - practicality

Chinese framed fixie - cheapness

Handbuilt 853 road bike - modernity

if you have to ask this question, then the answer is no... and you should stick with what you've got.

Disagree with ^.

I didn't need a vintage frame but bought one off eBay when I saw something I liked the look of. And it was an inspired decision. I got a 1992 Condor Squadra in 653 for a measly £100. Now that it's built it up (with modern bits) it rides and looks great.

So, I encourage you to go for it. The only problem with vintage is finding the right frame at the right price.

i understand.

i'm saying that if someone has to ask this question it's because the person isn't fully aware of the variables involved and shouldn't be buying expensive bikes. I would encourage someone in this position to stick to learning to bring old steel Treks (or similar) to perfect riding order for the smallest amount of money possible. and then move on to something more bling.

it's just better for everyone involved. I'll put it another way-- Theres no one answer to this question. it's a matter of whats appropriate. if you don't know whats appropriate then working towards cheap and functional is the answer.

forgive me if i'm mistaken.

i'm saying that if someone has to ask this question it's because the person isn't fully aware of the variables involved and shouldn't be buying expensive bikes.

I don't identify with this thinking, at all. Cheap bikes can be a pain in the arse too, and every damn penny you throw at them is infuriating because let's face it, once you've solved any and all problems, you still have a cheap shit heavy bike.
Spending the money to dial in a quality frameset to fit your needs will repay you with every pedal stroke.

the most enjoyable bikes i've ridden were very inexpensive.

and especially for a touring bike.

i'll debate this until i die, but i'll leave this thread alone so as to not be taken as inflammatory. the last ting i'll say is that the farther along i get into my relationship with bikes, the less money i spend on them. it's really all about the builder and knowing which bin to look in.

Ok, so you can get custom modern steel for under £500, I got a Goff to my exact spec for £460 including headset and P&P. Some people quote a similar amount for a paint job.

It will cost me more to renovate my Gios, including a new fork. I've had it from new, so emotion has over-ruled sense.

I COULD pick up a scruffy but good British frame from a decent but 'lesser' frame builder (less good at self-promotion, probably) for absolute pennies.

But, bearing in mind renovation costs, buying a good quality unfashionable frame which doesn't need paint is the only sane way to go.

personally I look at graphic design and paint schemes more than anything else.

Warning Warning Warning Honest Post Detected. Warning Warning Warning!

Genesis Croix De Fer - Reynolds 725 - mountings for disk brakes, racks and guards.
frame & fork £375

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/frames/croix-de-fer/croix-de-fer