Is buying a 'vintage' frame worth it?

I a torn between buying a new frame or an older/ vintage bike frame.

I want to build a touring bike and love the look of older frames/ bikes but wanted to know are their any downsides to buying vintage? What to look out for? Do people think they are overpriced or a bargin?

By vintage in mean like 1970's-90's.

If I buy new I'd probably buy something like a Bob Jackson Audax end-end (£500) and would be happy to spend the same on a vintage frame.

any item bought new immediately depreciates
some vintages if bought well may appreciate

New stuff is lighter and faster though if you're touring, that's largely irrelevant.
Race bikes I'd always go new, touring bike I'd probably get something older, if only to make it look less nickable. Things to be wary of - rust, broken parts, stupid French sized anything, seized parts, the fact it's harder to get some replacement parts for older stuff.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread52715.html

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good call, I will read the pdf

There is a lot of lovely old steel out there. Finding components that fit is a little more challenging than accessorising the latest Cannondale/Specialized/Trek model, but also fun and you learn a lot about the history of bikes and their manufacture long the way. Do your research but go for it.

Some vintage frames are overpriced because they are fashionable. The flip side to that is that there are plenty of good vintage brands that are underpriced because they aren't in the fashion top ten (for no more reason than the random caprice of fate). For example, those of us who are fans of the Gazelle Champion Mondial frames profit from the fact that they are unfashionable, since Gazelle mostly have a reputation for making clunky step-through eurobikes. As a result, some very sweet rides (made of high quality steel) are available for less than they are worth. Again, do your research.

#dontownabikenewerthan1981somightbebiased

[QUOTE=itsbruce;3585849]

Some vintage frames are overpriced because they are fashionable.

[/QUOTE}
In the interests of subject discourse
given that some vintage steel could be viewed as fashionable, and there fore overpriced, some therefore are classics,and will always hold value, no?
eg, like vintage cars?

Wow, thanks for all the replies. That really helps! Think i will get a vintage frame...

It's fun, research the provenance, and the romance of the hunt finding your steed
good luck!

[QUOTE=itsbruce;3585849]

Some vintage frames are overpriced because they are fashionable.

In the interests of subject discourse
given that some vintage steel could be viewed as fashionable, and there fore overpriced, some therefore are classics,and will always hold value, no?
eg, like vintage cars?[/QUOTE]

That depends on whether your priority is riding the bike or selling it on when you are done. If the former, then finding the best bike you can afford may be the better strategy.

I buy frames to ride them, not for the investment. I calculate there's a good chance I'll ride them to death (or my death).

I have 3 vintage frames that I have resprayed and maintain. One of them is now 25 years old and I still get a real joy out of riding it. Conversely, my 9 year lod alu frame now feels like a formless lump and really should be consigned to a new life as bottle tops.
Part of the pleasure of riding my old frames is maintaining them and this needn't be expensive. I'll concede that they're not as 'quick' as a modern carbon frame with carlos fandango wheels - but who cares? Just ride the old frame and enjoy it secure in the knowledge that you didn't just pop down to your local shop and get the latest gizmo stuff that shimano think is essential to your riding.

One other thing is that a lot of older frames a quite a bit cruisier in their handling whereas to get the same thing of a modern frame you'd need to look out for a purpose built tourer or audax build and these tend to be quite expensive as demand isn't as high as your bling cabron sportive/Strava/nodder machine.

That depends on whether your priority is riding the bike or selling it on when you are done. If the former, then finding the best bike you can afford may be the better strategy.

I buy frames to ride them, not for the investment. I calculate there's a good chance I'll ride them to death (or my death).

well put

70s-90s is a big ol' window.
I'd go 80's/90's steel. You can't go wrong with a decent 80's steel frame and there are LOADS of them.

Anything much older will have compatibility/performance shortcomings, and anything much newer will be either too wacky or still a bit pricey.

Another point is that if it's advertised in the UK as 'vintage' or 'retro', it's usually overpriced and the seller is trying to cash in. Forruners often sell equivalent frames on here for much less including shipping.

Another point is that if it's advertised in the UK as 'vintage' or 'retro', it's usually overpriced and the seller is trying to cash in.

You mean by asking what it's worth?

Since it's for touring I'd say you can go for an cheapish older frame (but you certainly don't have to). Unless you work for a museum don't bother with "period correct". Modern parts will work better and the spec sheet will work out cheaper. LFGSS fashionistas will disagree. Style over function is big around these parts.

You mean by asking what it's worth?

You're saying that worth = current market price (subjective theory of value). He has a different idea of worth (intrinsic theory of value).

Another question you need to ask yourself is, are you going for a vintage frame with vintage components, or a vintage frame with modern components.

Unless you are buying an old frame for its name, then the only reason to buy an old frame is that it's cheaper than a new one. But if you are happy with an off the peg then a new frame will be a lot less hassle to kit out.

Unless you are buying an old frame for its name, then the only reason to buy an old frame is that it's cheaper than a new one.

Bollocks. No, really. I would elaborate but somebody just hit me.

OK, let me elaborate. If you buy a old frame then you have to factor in the cost of any repair and refurbishment. Then you have to make sure that the components you have fit the old frame standards. You may have to find old parts in good working order. If it is a "name" e.g. Hetchins or Colnago then it may be worthwhile but if you just want a frame to ride then I see no point in spending as much on a "vintage" frame as on a new one.

Anyway, just my opinion.

One thing that has got better over time is braking.

For touring I'd say it's worth going modern for disc brakes alone.

Five to ten years ago I'd have said 'probably worth it'.
Since then, the renaissance of handmade / bespoke bicycles and the reappropriation of a lot of decent old steel road bikes as sweet fixies has rendered vintage bikes largely 'not worth it' to me - what's left seems overpriced.
My nostalgia for old road bikes is pretty non-existent though, personally I look at graphic design and paint schemes more than anything else.

If you can get your hands on a nice steel touring frame in your size at a good price then go for it. Dawes Galaxy, claud Butler Dalesman, and various Bob Jackson, Roberts, Raleigh and Mercian frames are available at a good deal less than your £500 budget if you hunt about a bit. As I'm sure you know, you should look for rack mounts and cantilever brake mounts.

The bike I've ridden almost everyday for the last 6 years is a Galaxy frame bought here for £45, with an ultegra group set and open pros. Complete build including powder coating was £730.

Not cheap, but a bike I think I'll have forever. As well as London riding its taken me across France and Spain too.

In short, if you have the time and inclination, buy an old, solid, good quality frame and build it up!

OK, let me elaborate. If you buy a old frame then you have to factor in the cost of any repair and refurbishment. Then you have to make sure that the components you have fit the old frame standards. You may have to find old parts in good working order. If it is a "name" e.g. Hetchins or Colnago then it may be worthwhile but if you just want a frame to ride then I see no point in spending as much on a "vintage" frame as on a new one.

Anyway, just my opinion.

I don't mean to be picky, tho he said exactly that...If the steel you want isn't a 'Nag or a pinarello, Bob Jackson or something else terribly hip...
Then you can get an amazing frame for sub £200...bearing in mind that many frames that come onto the forum from the 'Dutch Guys'...;D...will be 80/90's, great quality, won't have compatability issues (due to standardized sizing - of sorts anyways), will have plenty of life left, probably in really good condition ~ so won't need refurbing...and you may well get a fully loaded bike...for under £500...some of those will be more suited to touring than others...ie slightly less 'super sport' and a little more 'grand tourer'...remember anything too sporty (denoted by the gaps between the wheels and the frame anything with super close clearances will be twitchy if you add weight.)
If it's a pretty standard raleigh 531 then it should cost you about £100, as it's nothing special you can get some mounts brazed on for another £30 quid or so...(+ canti bosses a little more)...add a powder coat...thats £200...if you can find a tourer specific frame then all good, tho they are getting harder to find compared to people nearly giving them away 2-3 years ago...

Be aware that anything you buy new...will depreciate like crazy and will be worth half the money in 6 months, unless you spend a f*cking arm and a leg...ie £1200 or so...on a new FW Evans etc...won't be anything like as good a quality or RIDE...those saying 'Go modern' seem to be forgeting you have a limited budget, a good steel tourer with discs will be pretty steep...tho again...don't go for aluminium, they ride horribly.

Which brings us to the most important part...the Ride...

A classic steel frame will be infinitely more enjoyable to tour on than anything new and aluminium, and will last about 30 years longer as well. Alu frames are prone to stress failure, and do this far more regularly than steel ever does. Steel is far more forgiving when touring too, as the material stretches and flexes in ways that Alu never does...which makes for a far more enjoyable ride.

Keep your eyes peeled on here and ebay, you can still find full tourer bikes for around £250, they are harder to find, tho it's still doable.

If you are really considering going further than 10 miles around the city...

Get old Steel. It's that simple.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread89176.html#post3585799

^^ You know there is also new steel? It's a lot like the old stuff only... Well better.

Going past the advances in metelugy in the last thirty years, you can get everything that old steel can do with new steel and in some cases more... As mentioned before disc brake tabs are good. Not all new bikes are alu and carbon.

There are two reasons for old steel. Fashion and cost. C'est tout.

(I think all but one of my bikes are steal, ranging from prewar sun/parkes tubing, through 70's Carlton and Dawes 531, to modern genesis, one-on and charge frames. Oh and the 70's holdsworth 501 that was my first fixed)