Weight Cheapie (Chinese crabon fun)

Watching this with interest, although at this price range I would go OTP with last years' model from a major manufacturer, boring old me!

7.6kg is a light bike, it might be slightly heavier with a chain, which doesn't seem to appear on your parts list, rim tapes might help as well....

Ooops, senility strikes again, chain is in groupset!

Agreeing with everything Dan has said I am afraid!

Agreeing with everything Dan has said I am afraid!

Which one? ;)

For over £2k just buy yourself a CAAD10 or a Canyon if you want lightweight

It's not really an exercise in being lightweight...The only real stipulation was di2 and carbon* (and, tbh, internal wiring).

(*or titanium - though their (another Chinese supplier) frames had a 3 month lead time, and their version of 'internal cabling' meant 'drill a hole in the frame'. As an aside, if this does go to pot, I can recycle most of the components on a 'proper' ti frame or one of the premium (953/XCR/Ti) metal ones if I'm feeling flush (and patient) one day from Enigma or somesuch) I just cba to spend shitloads (and wait!) for something I'm not as invigoured (sp) about. It's a more realistic ride so I can give my upcoming sportives this year some proper ooomph with decent, modern componentry.

(I've also got a Colnago Oval CX I'm awaiting a respray (and completing a full set of pantographed components from ebay) which is a more pressing (and passion inducing) project)

Thats the spirit of adventure sir.

Haha! It's not pushing the envelope I admit.

I suppose it depends on what you want - if you want a bike that has years and years of R&D, race proven geometry, great finishing kit, warranty and manufacturer quality control systems then you want the Cannondale / Specialized / Canyon blah blah.

If you want a fake handbag with, with a Di2 vajazzle, no research, no development, no customer service, no warranty and a similar price tag, then you want your ebay spare parts convention.

I get that, and it is a gamble to swerve the potential customer service of the Wiggle/Dolan (and there was a Ribble) bargain frame, but frankly I have the opinion these companies wanting to knock out a 2k di2 frame are simply subcontracting out to a Chinese firm to do what I'm doing (as cheap as possible), only in bulk and adding some unwanted graphics. Who's more motivated and controlled, CarbonKing2k making frames on his Wiggle contract, or contract selling through Alibaba (Ebay) (with their visible feedback)? I just don't think the gulf is as big as you'd think.I'm not in the price point for a Madone or a Dogma.

I wholeheartedly admit I'm cutting corners on this project. It's completely different to my approach on others that I've got stuck in to.

No, it really isn't. It's akin to putting some leccy tape over the silver piece of fruit on the back of your phone. You're still ordering a brand new frame from the other end of the earth, made in a country that throws up power stations like apartment blocks.
A "big fu" would be to build your own frame.

Whilst I don't think I'm sticking it to the man going direct, I do think the transparency of the carbon frame industry has benefitted the public in keeping the manufacturers' prices in check. Tbh it's why I've never been too enthused about carbon bikes (Steel is Reel maaan). It's all so soulless.

Building a bike from new parts will always be more expensive but its great to get what you want. Got my Canyon AL (love it) but have changed a fair few things on it (stem, saddle, bar tape, brakes, tyres etc.) and its not perfect so ££££ could be about the same as going diy.

This is going to look mighty interesting, can't wait for dat stuff to come!

Exactly...Anything else I'd choose (OTP) would end up being a costly triggers broom

Which one? ;)

dan.

That Supersix has a full warranty and let's face it, Cannondale are masters of otp road bikes. It's a bargain for what it is too.

dan.

That Supersix has a full warranty and let's face it, Cannondale are masters of otp road bikes. It's a bargain for what it is too.

It would have been a contender if it was in my size.

It's just a personal thing - my thoughts on Cannondale just don't really send any positive thoughts rushing through my head. It's a bit shameful, but I like to think the rest of my bikes are moderately fancy/desirable/noticeable. I see most cf bikes as bog standard Evans fodder for guys from Richmond. Nothing inherently wrong with it, but not where I am right now.

One of the reasons I wanted to keep the cost much south of 3k, is that if i crept to that amount, I'd think 'fuck it' and go for my semi-dream bike and get a Trek Domane 5.9 (£3,8k) - the only bike where the actual design innovations would make me ignore the 'orrible branding. At 2k II'll be half way there when I sell my (lovely IMO!) Colnago Super (after L'eroica) and the Di2 (which represents the bulk of the cost) can be recycled.

If you need a big frame then you will never be short of bargains from last year.

You say that you're not after a Madone or a Dogma, but with the kind of money you are talking you're not far off. If I were you (desperate for di2 with a fixed budget) I would buy a good condition 2nd hand frame (there are so many out there if you are patient) and a new di2 group.

I would totally understand this project (well, not totally, but I would better understand it) if you were building yourself a mechanical Ultegra-equipped race bike at that weight for sub £1300.. but even then I would still rather buy a Ribble or PX - there is very little difference in price, plus you get better customer service, QC and a warranty. I appreciate the decision you are making is one of aesthetics, but if I were on a budget I wouldn't skimp on warranty because I'm too much of a tart to ride a frame with an ugly logo.

Or you could just buy a Ultegra CAAD* and have a blindingly good bike straight out of the box. Don't believe all the guff about carbon being way better and more comfortable than alu, there may be some difference in ride quality, but not that most of us can discern over choice of contact points and tyre pressure.

• stock forum response: buy a CAAD - but there's a reason for that!
  

off topic @ dan Canyon was founded in 2002. But if you measure the technical competence based on the staff then they certainly have years of experience as they secured some well respected frame designers at start up

yes I'm aware of that - but as you say they pinched a bunch of people, plus they don't seem to have had any problems winning races in their short history. I was really making a larger 'big manufacturers' point.

If I were you (desperate for di2 with a fixed budget) I would buy a good condition 2nd hand frame (there are so many out there if you are patient) and a new di2 group.

...if I were on a budget I wouldn't skimp on warranty because I'm too much of a tart to ride a frame with an ugly logo.

If having a warranty is so vital (and in my opinion most warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on) the how is buying a second-hand frame (which won't come with a warranty) a good alternative?

You snipped out the bit where he said 'for very little more money, go to Ribble/P-X, and get effectively the same bike + warrenty'

What a warranty is worth depends on the company you buy it from - one from Bianchi: just burn it.. but one from Specialized or Giant; frame it on your wall.

I was suggesting a second hand frame as a good option for someone on a budget, I would rather buy a top quality second hand frame in good condition than a mystery ebay frame which needs all cable routing sanded down before you can run anything. I have bought good condition second hand carbon frames several times now and always been very happy with them. The difference in frame material may (as I mentioned already) be less relevant than most people think, however there a bloody ocean of difference between a good carbon frame and a bad one!

The other alternative, as pointed out above is that you can have a similar or better quality frame from PX or ribble, but it comes with a decent warranty and someone to talk to over the phone in the UK, should the headtube mysteriously crack in transit etc, or you snap the mech hanger etc etc

Anyway, my 2p. Carry on...

But the frame itself isn't actually all that expensive at just £370 of the total build, so arguing about the total price being more / less than an oem manufacturer is really arguing about whether it's more cost effective to buy an otp or build your own (answer: it's always more cost effective to buy an otp).

I agree with Dan W - there are almost no otp bikes that I find particularly exciting, and actually I find Canondales almost the least exciting, whereas building something from slightly more left field parts makes for a much more fulfilling project and bike.
There's enough of the Chinese frames being ridden to suggest that it's unlikely to just snap on you, and I strongly suspect that a lot of the other brands use the same (or almost identical) frames anyway.

Interesting project - I've never had any interest in a carbon bike, but I'll admit to having been tempted by one of these as well.

If you need a big frame then you will never be short of bargains from last year.

Open to suggestions - I genuinely couldn't find one.

You say that you're not after a Madone or a Dogma, but with the kind of money you are talking you're not far off. If I were you (desperate for di2 with a fixed budget) I would buy a good condition 2nd hand frame (there are so many out there if you are patient) and a new di2 group.

The Di2 is a deal breaker (the noise of misaligned rear derailleurs haunts me), and the di2 versions of those frames is Small-Car territory.

I'm wary of second hand frames due to the propensity of bike theft, and, well, people sell bikes for a reason (i.e. they're fucked) and carbon one's are tougher (IMO) to spot the dudds.

I would totally understand this project (well, not totally, but I would better understand it) if you were building yourself a mechanical Ultegra-equipped race bike at that weight for sub £1300.. but even then I would still rather buy a Ribble or PX - there is very little difference in price, plus you get better customer service, QC and a warranty. I appreciate the decision you are making is one of aesthetics, but if I were on a budget I wouldn't skimp on warranty because I'm too much of a tart to ride a frame with an ugly logo.

For the record, if Planet X did a di2 bike I'd probably bite their hand off. The brand says the 'right things' to me (very budget conscious, little delusions of being a US/Euro Grande Dame, just bikes that work) and the frames are pretty discrete.

But they don't.

The point of the project is to try out di2 shifting and for a set and forget (or at least allow a bit of dimentia). It's in the back of my head a lot of the groupset will be transposed onto a future build if it's a roaring success (when the frame snaps on me!)

Or you could just buy a Ultegra CAAD* and have a blindingly good bike straight out of the box. Don't believe all the guff about carbon being way better and more comfortable than alu, there may be some difference in ride quality, but not that most of us can discern over choice of contact points and tyre pressure.

• stock forum response: buy a CAAD - but there's a reason for that!
  
  

And the Mumsnet crowd RAVES about M&S slacks ;)

http://www.hibike.de/shop/product/pa755490c4ca923758e79f0a138a4a806/s/Storck-Fenomalist-DI2-Rahmenkit-matt-black-Mod-2012.html

Fenomalist Di2. Half price framekit.

Can someone tell me buying these wheels is a bad idea too?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/720372861/High_quality_carbon_5_spokes_wheels.html?s=p

the noise of misaligned rear derailleurs haunts me

it would be cheaper to get some of these:

http://www.hibike.de/shop/product/pa755490c4ca923758e79f0a138a4a806/s/Storck-Fenomalist-DI2-Rahmenkit-matt-black-Mod-2012.html

Fenomalist Di2. Half price framekit.

€1350 for a frameset? Not sure how/where that helps tbh!

€1350 for a frameset? Not sure how/where that helps tbh!

It was lazy posting.

My logic.

Storck Fenomalist frameset + Tiagra 10spd >>> Ebay special frame + Ultrega Di2.

That frameset is one of the best money can buy. It'll build into a 'superbike'. I'm a bit of a bike snob though.

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/road-parts/transmission/groupsets-road-bike/shimano-tiagra-4600-groupset.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-GB&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Groupsets+-+Road+Bike

You can buy upgrade packs later to go electrical. You'd probably have to run continous (Gore) cable outers on the Di2 frame. But thats just while you're saving for the upgrade.

Can someone tell me buying these wheels is a bad idea too?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/720372861/High_quality_carbon_5_spokes_wheels.html?s=p

Heavy and ugly.

These will be loads better. There's been a few group buys on here from FarSports.
http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-142.html

I'm wary of second hand frames due to the propensity of bike theft, and, well, people sell bikes for a reason (i.e. they're fucked) and carbon one's are tougher (IMO) to spot the dudds.

Just on these two points;

1) people change frames for soooo many reasons. From looking at this and other forums it's because they either, want an "upgrade", or because they don't use it and want the money to buy something else.

2) Yes you can look for the angel of forks, bulges around the tops of tubes, etc. but the truth is you've really got no idea about a frame's history. I've seen lots of stuff on the internet, but the only 3 "real life" egs I've seen/heard of where there have been issues with frames/frames failings have all been steel.

If you're using some old school gas pipe, then yes it's tough and will last forever. But I find it hard to believe that for quality road/race frames that carbon / alu frames fail so much more than thin walled steel ones.

It was lazy posting.

My logic.

Storck Fenomalist frameset + Tiagra 10spd >>> Ebay special frame + Ultrega Di2.

You can buy upgrade packs later to go electrical. You'd probably have to run continous (Gore) cable outers on the Di2 frame. But thats just while you're saving for the upgrade.

It's a lovely frame, but on the other hand, the cost of binning the crabon frame here and replacing that with a nicer one to hang the di2 stuff off is probably less than the cost of replacing all the tiagra stuff that you'd be hanging off the Storck.

Either way, you end up spending way more

Just on these two points;

1) people change frames for soooo many reasons. From looking at this and other forums it's because they either, want an "upgrade", or because they don't use it and want the money to buy something else.

2) Yes you can look for the angel of forks, bulges around the tops of tubes, etc. but the truth is you've really got no idea about a frame's history. I've seen lots of stuff on the internet, but the only 3 "real life" egs I've seen/heard of where there have been issues with frames/frames failings have all been steel.

If you're using some old school gas pipe, then yes it's tough and will last forever. But I find it hard to believe that for quality road/race frames that carbon / alu frames fail so much more than thin walled steel ones.

they don't. Carbon is tough shit.

It's a lovely frame, but on the other hand, the cost of binning the crabon frame here and replacing that with a nicer one to hang the di2 stuff off is probably less than the cost of replacing all the tiagra stuff that you'd be hanging off the Storck.

Either way, you end up spending way more

I was kinda starting from scratch. Plus I like the idea of getting something on the road, then upgrading. With the distant propect of owning something truly amazing.

I'm not being very helpful though.