LBS vs Online stores

how much choice does the 'market' really give?

Lots. You might not like all (or any) of the choices, but there is a pretty wide range available.

My LBS (Golden Saddle Cyclery) opens at 11am, closes at 8pm. Open every day except Wednesday. This means the owners have enough time to ride every morning and train for racing.
I did wonder if they were missing any morning repair work, but tbh this part of LA is still pretty thin with commuter cyclists.

They can order pretty much anything I like, and give a little discount because I'm a friendly guy who supports the shop, wears their t-shirt, shows up to watch them race, etcetera.
When my Pomp's finished, the only Internet parts will be the frame (which isn't available in any US physical store), the forks and possibly the wheelset, as I'd never expect my LBS to price-match or undercut an online discount wheel supplier.
If a good used wheelset pops up on Craigslist I'll take that instead.

SYLBS. You'll be sad when it's gone.

^^Yeah, you're spinning it a bit. Often the choice is not so much 'pick the work / life / income balance you like', as choose whether to tolerate the balance offered or not work.

The trade-off reached between consumers wanting services at all hours and workers who'd like a life too is not a moral compromise between their competing interests, but a matter of supply and demand. Readily replaceable workers have to accept pandering to consumers while rare & in-demand professionals can get away with making their customers wait. The market's balance doesn't always maximise total utility, but while a collectively negotiated compromise might do better it would be harsher on those with values further from the average. Variety is one thing markets do well.

Lots. You might not like all (or any) of the choices, but there is a pretty wide range available.

Happy in a world with a foot on the neck of your fellow man.

I live pretty near the bottom of the capitalist hierarchy, at least in the domestic schema. Not many necks bear my footprint.

The only thing I use a LBS for is clothing and the odd part that I need "now"..

Having worked in retail for many years and cut my teeth in the cycle trade I can honestly say if there was a industry I would steer clear of if I was a independent it would be cycling.

The big chain stores have to much of the market cornered for the little guy to make ends meet, unless you have really carved out a niche..

People now days are more savvy than ever when it comes to doing things themselves to save money..

You tube can show you everything why pay for a mechanic when you have a step by step video manual of the job you want to do 2sec away on your phone??

Also a lot of the smaller independent stores shoot themselves in the foot with there attitude, I had a massive store open up 5mins from my house and at the time I was spending a good few £k each year on bike related bits. I only went in there the once as there approach to customer service was shocking and I wasn't surprised when they closed down a few years later..

Online is easy if you know what you want and if i'm honest like a few on here I just get fed up not being able to get what I want over the counter.

I'm not suggesting restricted hours of access to *essential *(staffed) services like healthcare. Of course not, you fucking idiots. Nor about the long-established culture of bar/pub/restaurant provision in the evening, so the glib comments about that can fuck off too.

Enjoy the descent into exploitation. Get your pleasure vicariously by continuing to aspire to the lives of the unscrupulous minority you serve - all day, all night, whenever they get the itch.

why side with the bosses of corporates as opposed to your fellow worker?

Because some of my closest friends were born and raised under a system premised on the solidarity of the proletariat, and learnt hard lessons from the experience. I wouldn't wish that on anybody, least of all myself.

That there are worse ways of doing things i can accept. That this is the best possible i don't.

It is the worst system imaginable, with the exception of all the others.

I'm not suggesting restricted hours of access to *essential *(staffed) services like healthcare. Of course not, you fucking idiots.

Enjoy the descent into exploitation. Get your pleasure vicariously by continuing to aspire to the lives of the unscrupulous minority you serve - all day, all night, whenever they get the itch.

Steady on. Perhaps I should have been more explicit in my irony?! Having spent a decade of my working life being the highest qualified and lowest paid member of staff on night shifts during 100 hour weeks I'm all too aware that 'essential' services are rightly provided.

If an LBS does not provide the service that it's customers require, they will go elsewhere. Simple. Hopefully another LBS, but the internet offerings are a good option for many. That's reality. Regrettable, but true. Economics dictates that when the moral incentive of choosing the LBS is greater than the financial incentive offered by Wiggle, the LBS will get the business.

they are your social values, not mine.

Ftfy. Rest assured, your social values are not mine so leave the plural out of it.

Doubletap has it right I think. There is a requirement for mechanics not parts. I may be looked down on for saying so here, given the culture of DIY mechanics, but I prefer to get most things done by an experienced mechanic as they will always do a better job than me and the cost isn't unreasonable. My hobby is cycling, not mechanics.

I didn't say your social matched mine, only that they don't match BMMF's. The plural was entirely correct.

I understand your point (all our social values differ, therefore none of our values are the same as BMMF's). This is an assumption. I still think it implies collective opposition.

There is nothing wrong with home maintenance of bikes. Investing in tools, buying the books, watching you tube footage, gaining experience. Fixed gear cycling is pretty low maintenance. But I prefer to share my wealth, by supporting good independent business and my community. I get an okay deal, it's not like I'm in there every weekend, we discuss things, share experiences and i promote them, I even borrow the odd tool sometimes. There is a relationship with cycling which i prefer to be part of. That's my understanding of LBS.

At work we have about +20 cyclists, quite often i get asked to help with mechanical issues.. what I can't do, either because I haven't the time, the tools or the knowledge, I send them to the mechanics I know and trust.

agree with BMMF on this, but also they have to extend to more than just selling e.g here:-

http://roadcyclinguk.com/blogs/independents-day.html#slide-1

There is a requirement for mechanics not parts...My hobby is cycling, not mechanics.

This had better be true for quite a lot of people if bike shops as service providers (rather than box shifters) are to survive. For all that I know, it might well be.

LBS's are there for -
(1) Idiots who want to buy shit bikes
(2) People who want to buy the basics for said bikes
(3) People who want bikes serviced / repaired and can't do it themselves.

Rubbish.

Warcraft is a tough game.

I work in my LBS but still get most of my parts off the net and don't get my boss to pay me to fit them, granted we are one of the low budget shops for idiots who want shit bikes. Most of the people buying ain't actually idiots wanting shit bikes, they are just less well of people without a massive interest in cycling wanting something cheap and working. We ain't the kind of place most people on here would frequent but we serve a purpose and are better than getting your bike from a supermarket. If I have a point it's that there are different shops for different people and they hopefully all have a place, but if you can do it yourself then go for it. It's exactly the same with fixing your own car or toilet.

Not all bike shops are the same I suppose, but I always buy from LBS whenever possible... Can't beat building rapport with someone in the trade if you're in it for the long haul, even if sometimes you might have to pay a little bit extra. That said, in my experience bike shops will price match whenever they can.

I'm not suggesting restricted hours of access to *essential *(staffed) services like healthcare. Of course not, you fucking idiots. Nor about the long-established culture of bar/pub/restaurant provision in the evening, so the glib comments about that can fuck off too.

Enjoy the descent into exploitation. Get your pleasure vicariously by continuing to aspire to the lives of the unscrupulous minority you serve - all day, all night, whenever they get the itch.

the last quote I got was potentially £450 plus per hour for a bike mechanic's time

I can't be the only one dying to see this quote.

£7.50 for fitting a new chain.

^Indy LBS or large bicycle chain store?