LBS vs Online stores

I personally shop online for various things, but often find myself frustrated by failed delivery's, delays in shipping and in the case of Wiggle, not being able to even call up and find out when my stuff will arrive!
I end up putting up with all the above because its still cheaper...

But I often wonder, if the LBS was opened longer hours, had a better range of stock and was price competitive with the online stores, would I still shop online?
I personally would stop buying online all together if the above was the case, because after all I find it more convenient to be able to pop into the LBS on the ride home from work, grab the tyres I had ordered from work with a click and collect service for example and not have to wait around for a delivery which is never guaranteed!

What are your thoughts?

Have you not thought about the reasons why an Lbs doesn't stay open late and have tons of stock while undercutting the online retailers?

LBS's cant compete with the prices of online retailers but way too many of em open at stupid times.

If I leave work at 6/6.30 which happens frequently instead of 5.30 as im meant to, I never can get the little bits and pieces that I would always buy from them and have to do it online instead. Then, on the weekend, most are closed on Sunday and if you have a lie in on Saturday then you may miss their blink and you miss it opening times on Saturday.

Fitzrovia Cycles are awesome cause they close at 7 so i give them tons of business.

Why not stay open on Sunday when people can access them, close on Monday instead if they have to have a full day closed. Open at 10 or 11 and close at 7 or 8 in the evening so people can access them. So simple and obvious (to me at least) yet very few do it

I understand fully, but forgetting if this would ever be viable (unlikely to say the least).
I just wandered whether people would buy more from the LBS if the prices were internet competitive and the shop was open longer?

I think some LBS's need to man up and open earlier and close later - as much as i hate evans and cyclesurgery they are quite good at this. People are busy, need to drop a bike off for repair before work, collect it after, or pick up some emergency supplies on the way home so 9-5/6 opening hours don't cut it.

As much as most bike shop staff would love to have Sunday's off, it's pretty ridiculous to close then - you would be losing a lot of money.

Stock's a difficult one - with the space available to most LBS you physically cannot compete with giant warehouses. There will always be customers who want some specific bar/stem whatever, and most of the time they know exactly where to get it from. With and LBS I think it should be more about 'smart stock' Have a range of items that cover the bases and pricepoints, but do not overwhelm customers with too much choice. If they ask why you don't stock a particular brand, have the reason at the ready, and explain alternatives.

Price is the final hurdle - Alot of manufacturers/distributors are now promising to reign in who they sell too to stop there products being agressively discounted by online sellers, not only does it damage local business it also damages the perception of there brand if it's permenantly on 40% off online.

The LBS model is set up to repair and maintain your bikes for you, not to cater to the hobbyist/DIY enthusiast. You give them bike, they order in part and fit it 4 days later when it arrives.

Mine has absolutely no stock of anything but workshop always heaving and the fact I can't walk up and even buy a set of Avid disc pads or even a replacement spoke in an emergency doesn't bother them a jot.

The internet is creating new business models for some mechanics, I know there are guys in NYC and Aus whose whole business is building bikes/repairng and parts sourced from mail order for customers. No stock held at all.

But I often wonder, if the LBS was opened longer hours...

They're already doing that. most of them open till 8pm to compensate those who work longer hours that's becoming the norms.

They even work bank holiday too on an ironically normal opening time (9-5).

Had a better range of stock...

There's only so much you can put in a shop, whether places like Wiggle have an actual warehouse, again, some shop do have that (Condor have their own abet small, warehouse in Bermondsey)

and was price competitive with the online stores...

A lots of places have price match offer but the smallest shop, the sales margin isn't great when the retail price is quite close to trade price (again place like Wiggle can afford to do that as they don't have brick and mortar shop around the UK).

Would I still shop online?

Probably if it's quicker and easier to obtain than special ordering the part (which usually take a little longer than usual if it's not a typical order).

I think some LBS's need to man up and open earlier and close later - as much as i hate evans and cyclesurgery they are quite good at this. People are busy, need to drop a bike off for repair before work, collect it after, or pick up some emergency supplies on the way home so 9-5/6 opening hours don't cut it.

While I agree that it's quite useful for shop to open really early and late, the main problem is that it's not exactly feasible in term of economic, in some morning we don't even get a single customer until 10am (opened 8am), and the same goes to the evening where the only people that come late are those who's picking up their bicycle that were brought in for repair.

The majority of customer who come in very early in the morning are those who need to drop off their bicycle for repairs, I would says around 2 to 4 people a day who come in for emergency.

I personally would stop buying online all together if the above was the case, because after all I find it more convenient to be able to pop into the LBS on the ride home from work

I shop online predominantly because its convenient. I can shop at work, have it delivered to my office where I can simply put it in my bag and take home. If I need to send it back I can walk across the road to the post office, without having to fuck about. I have pretty much unlimited choice and I don't have to do to a crowded shop in a crowded shopping area full of gurns.

Bike parts are no different.

As much as its nice to have local little shops that do specific things, the truth is 9 times out of 10 they're not really practical for modern life. I don't think there's anything you can do about that.

That said, yes, extended hours would improve things. But from a pure business POV LBS' just need to do something to carve themselves out. Look at Condor, BLB, and TFG.

I maintain all of the family's bikes (6 in total) So having a few LBS close by is convenient for the very basic parts. anything more specific I'll get on line. But occasionally I get my road bike properly serviced. I could do it, I have most of the tools, the stand, the knowledge.. But life's too short, right? and I trust my mechanic friends more than I trust myself. Especially before heading off to tackle +260km of the Ardennes next month.

I guess everyone has their own preference to either hands-on maintenance or professional servicing.

Oh yeah, let's encourage massively extended opening hours, well into anti-social hours. I mean there's no way any of us would choose to work those shitty inconvenient hours if we could help it, but we expect some other desperate schmuck to be there for our whimsical or impatient consumer demands. They should be grateful for the job, right? They've probably made massive compromises to fit it into their lives, opting out of the more conventional social lives enjoyed by their friends, and losing out on quality time with their families, but the economy's going to collapse if people can't buy some high end bar tape or get their loose aheadsets looked at on the way back home to their instant-gratification existence.

Fuck off.

Yep.

It's a vicious circle.

Working hours are longer, shop stay open longer to compensate, then working hours get even longer now that shop open much later in the evening.

And now we got supermarket that open 24 hours a day so we don't have to worry about getting food if necessary.

Bike shops are interesting in that they straddle the retail and service industry areas.

This is a fairly well served area therefore they need to differentiate themselves sufficiently if they are not purely relying on location/foot fall to drive sales.

My LBS's of choice are Brixton Cycles and LMNH, and I tend to drop the bike off to get annoying small tasks dealt with at LMNH due to going there for a coffee every morning on the way to work- it's a 5 minute walk back there when I finish, also.

Still- this would not be an option if they opened at 9am and shut at 5.30.

Brixton open at 9 and shut at 6, which rules out every day of the week for me bar Thursday (when they open later) and Saturday.

I use them for facing bottom bracket shells, cutting down steerer tubes and other things for which I don't have the tools, and it's relatively convenient to drive over there on a Saturday morning to get these things done.

I'll drop into Evans/Scurgery purely because they are open at 7pm, and I need something for which I am not prepared to wait- and understand that I'll pay a premium for this.

^ good post.

Oh yeah, let's encourage massively extended opening hours, well into anti-social hours.

Fuck off.

Sorry but I find your post really hard to understand. It's retail. I'm not really sure what you expect.

What makes a LBS so special? Look at someone like Metro Bank - their whole brand is based on being a "retail business", so they are open when shops are open. Shops open (or should) at the times best suited to consumers. How does that not make sense?

I still don't actually think hours inthemselves will make much difference though. As dammit points out you need to have some sort of USP.

The worst LBS is the Specialized place in Ruislip, more of a "bicycle boutique" I asked for a single speed cog the bloke looked totally mortified and brushed the request off, vile and shite! but the LBS the North Harrow shop is much better and actually seem to like bicyclists, so if you live in Ruislip go for online, if you live in Harrow its 50:50 normally on price, (I only ever buy parts)

My personal favourite is the Halfords 20% deal, reserve online, collect in store, save 20%. and they always fumble the order and let you pick something more expensive for the same price!

Sorry but I find your post really hard to understand. It's retail. I'm not really sure what you expect.

A bicycle shop that open late at 8pm?

While the rest of Europe have a normal opening time, we go insane with our.

^ good post.

Sorry but I find your post really hard to understand. It's retail. I'm not really sure what you expect.

What makes a LBS so special? Look at someone like Metro Bank - their whole brand is based on being a "retail business", so they are open when shops are open. Shops open (or should) at the times best suited to consumers. How does that not make sense?

I still don't actually think hours inthemselves will make much difference though. As dammit points out you need to have some sort of USP.

I'm sorry, but if you can't understand my point you're probably already of the mindset that's causing the gradual erosion of important social values in exchange for the good of the market.

I'm guessing we have fundamentally opposing beliefs, other than viewing cycling as a positive activity.

LBS's are there for -
(1) Idiots who want to buy shit bikes
...

Wow. Just wow.

Oh yeah, let's encourage massively extended opening hours, well into anti-social hours. I mean there's no way any of us would choose to work those shitty inconvenient hours if we could help it, but we expect some other desperate schmuck to be there for our whimsical or impatient healthcare demands. They should be grateful for the job, right? They've probably made massive compromises to fit it into their lives, opting out of the more conventional social lives enjoyed by their friends, and losing out on quality time with their families, but the economy's going to collapse if people can't get their prescription or get their rash looked at on the way back home to their instant-gratification existence.

Fuck off.

Are you running my GP practice!

BMMF, are you advocating that pubs and restaurants should all close at 5.30 so their poor staff can go and enjoy their evenings in the pub with their mates? oh wait....

I would rather spend my money at a good LBS and im happy to pay a small premium for this so that the knowledge and expertise of their mechanics is available to me when I need them. Wiggle or Chain Reaction cant help me out with a bodge on a headset or something when I need it. All Im saying is that for me and the majority of 9-5.30/6 working people, LBS' arent an option for us which is immensely frustrating. Its not ideological, just practical.

Instead of opening at 8, why not open at 10/11? and close at 8pm? Dont close on a Sunday when people need to access you, close on Monday when most people dont need to access you.

Cloud9Cycles on Store St do this (they are closed for renovation but ropen soon) and Fitzrovia are open till 7, help your customers out!

Instead of opening at 8, why not open at 10/11? and close at 8pm? Dont close on a Sunday when people need to access you, close on Monday when most people dont need to access you.

They already do that.

Late shift do 11am-8pm.
Early shift do 8am-4.30pm (or 5pm if you choose a full hour for lunch).

not talking about evans here (see me valuing bike shops cause of the knowledge and experience of the staff). The majority of bike shops close at 6 on weekdays

you're probably already of the mindset that's causing the gradual erosion of important social values in exchange for the good of the market

In a free market, you can choose your work/life balance, and you don't get to dictate how other people set theirs. Nobody acts for the good of the market, they act in their own interest. You might think "important social values" are being eroded, but they are your social values, not ours.

Tosh, how much choice does the 'market' really give?