Lost cities / archaeology / ancient history

This Tutankhamun tomb thing seems to be hotting up, with each new step widely reported:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2015/dec/01/egyptian-explorers-discovered-new-treasures-tutankhamun-egypt

Now they think there may be more to find under the Great Pyramid, too.

Lots of high-profile archaeological stuff popping up at the moment:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/06/wreck-spanish-galleon-treasure-haul
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/06/holy-grail-of-shipwrecks-in-three-way-court-battle

As with the 'gold train', these are, of course, ill-gotten gains.

The amazing thing is that a modern court decides on the technicality that the conquered Inca empire was a 'colony' and that there can therefore be no restitution of treasures brutally stolen from their creators. Probably correct in view of how wrong the law probably is, but still unbelievable.

And one more, about Stonehenge, no less:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/07/stonehenge-first-erected-in-wales-secondhand-monument

I would've liked to have seen more photographs in the Stonehenge article, particularly of the 'loading bay' and of the pillars in their recesses.
Very interesting nevertheless.

Next round on the claim that there's a train full of wartime plunder hidden in the Owl Mountains:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/there-is-no-nazi-gold-train-polish-scientists-say

I really hope they eventually find it, what a story.
Would be very interesting to see their 'irrefutable evidence'.

I think it could potentially be an incredibly hard and traumatic find for descendants or friends of those who had their valuables stolen from them. Obviously, fewer and fewer witnesses will remain alive the longer this drags on, but there may well be family heirlooms uncovered that are still known to the survivors.

The main thing that still annoys me about the reporting is that this is 'treasure', as well as the term 'gold train', and indeed anything that makes it sound like the next Indiana Jones instalment. If it exists, it's a tainted object that will require a lot of extremely careful archaeology and restitution, where that is even still possible.

Admittedly I got sucked into it specifically by terms like 'nazi gold train' and 'treasure' and hadn't thought at all about the provenance of the objects within the train.

That said if there is indeed a train filled with nazi loot I would still love to see it excavated.
Is there a code of conduct or some type of repatriation (for lack of a better word) in place for stolen artworks and objects?

There's an enormous amount of post-Nazi legislation. I don't understand it very well. With such a huge amount of injustice perpetrated, the legislation trying to put it right needs to be pretty complicated itself.

Anyway, I hope that however this turns out it can still be dealt with in a reasonable fashion.

It seems very like that story from a few years ago that there were loads of crated-up Spitfires buried under an airfield in somewhere like Rangoon.
Lots of hype, then digging up a big box of mud, and embarrassed silence.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mapped-whole-underground-manchester-11028890

Don't know if this is the right place for it but the map is cool, the pipe taking water from the lakes to Debdale reservoir runs two streets over from my house.

So have you swum the length of it yet?

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/16/story-cities-day-3-baghdad-iraq-world-civilisation

I'll do a few widths instead.

So, this story keeps rumbling on ...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/egypt-hidden-chambers-tutankhamun-tomb-nefertiti

one of the reasons i love Colombia, is its pre conquest history. We travelled extensively two years ago, but barely scratched surface. The country also has every terrain from desert to mountain to savannah to jungle to mosquito coast, high plateaus, volcanoes even tropical islands. With 87 recognised indigenous peoples. Sites like the lost Ciudad Perdida in Sierra Nevada Mountains (made famous by Indiana Jones) five day hike through the jungle with sherpas etc, will make way for cable car access in the near future, imagine the human destruction when that happens. San Augustin, Salto del Tenquandama, El Peñol also make for fascinating visits. The Sierra Nevada is generally off limits were the Kogi tribe hid themselves from the conquestadors and still remain unconquered. This is their sacred land, and apparently there are two more ancient cities within the Sierra Nevada Mountain range not seen by western eyes, overgrown and not visible from Google Earth.
In Minca you can still find ancient trails, which the Kogi and other tribes used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kogi_people

I can't wait to return to this paradise on earth, it would take a lifetime to see it all.

Slightly further to the south, but somewhat related:

http://newscientist.com/article/dn2­7945-myth-of-pristine-amazon-rainforest-­busted-as-old-cities-reappear/

Thanks to @Sumo for posting it in the Epic Win thread.

One of my more persistent impressions when reading about research into ancient history is that I always end up thinking that ancient populations must have been much larger than we currently assume. The re-emergence of these sites is also interesting in the light of old tales like the one about El Dorado.

It is very interesting to think that apart from the many already somewhat explored ancient civilisations of North America, Mesoamerica and Andean South America, there may also have been similar city-states or perhaps even empires in Amazonian South America.

Interesting stuff from Curtain Road:

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/may/17/curtain-excavation-early-shakespeare-theatre-rectangular-shoreditch

I've been to the El Dorado Museum in Bogotá, there's over 55,000 artefacts there, not seized by the conquistadors and melted down for coinage 500 years ago. Exhibits tour the world, British Museum had them on display a couple years ago. I suspect ancient finds will continue to resurface.

I suspect that less efficient land use and the need for large urban centres to produce most of their staples relatively nearby might conspire to create more sprawling settlements with smaller populations. I'm also not convinced that there were as many large conurbations as now - at least not as many in use at any given time.

That said, the scale of some ancient cities is incredible. The settlement surrounding Ankor Wat was the largest and most populous city to have ever existed, until Paris overtook it in the 1800s. The engineering and urban planning skills that went into it are amazing!

I'd guess at religious worship, but it'll be interesting what they conclude on this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/25/neanderthals-built-mysterious-cave-structures-175000-years-ago

I suspect that less efficient land use and the need for large urban centres to produce most of their staples relatively nearby might conspire to create more sprawling settlements with smaller populations. I'm also not convinced that there were as many large conurbations as now - at least not as many in use at any given time.

I'm only speculating, of course, and have no idea either way. My main suspicion is that we have little evidence of what must have been large (wooden) shanty towns around the stone-built urban cores of which we see remains today. I'm obviously also not trying to claim that the population was comparable to ours. There is little doubt that most Mayan cities had relatively clearly determinable periods of flourishing that, thanks to Mayan inscriptions, can be related to political events, and that the cities whose remains we see were indeed great at different times.

That said, the scale of some ancient cities is incredible. The settlement surrounding Ankor Wat was the largest and most populous city to have ever existed, until Paris overtook it in the 1800s. The engineering and urban planning skills that went into it are amazing!

Yes, and not only Angkor, but also Bagan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagan

Less of a megacity, but equally impressive in some ways.

This is really interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jun/04/x-rays-reveal-medieval-manuscripts

The application that is talked about in the article is to library books in which old manuscripts were used to create book bindings, but there is also still a number of unread scrolls from the sensational find of the Epicurean library at Herculaneum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculaneum_papyri

You can see how difficult it has been to read these properly. I wonder if this new method will work on them. Various other methods have been tried, the latest one in 2015, but perhaps this new one will bring further improvement?

It's a good time for archaeology announcements (and, for those who followed the recent discussion about remote sensing in the Epic Win thread, proper uses of remote sensing). Both findings sensational:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/09/petra-buried-monument-discovered-jordan

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/11/lost-city-medieval-discovered-hidden-beneath-cambodian-jungle

Having said that, I'm certain there is so much more to be found, especially using this method, and what we've excavated so far is the tip of the iceberg at best. Humans have been busy during history.

That petra one is exciting and there was a TV show about Cambodia I think when they were doing the liedar stuff, there will be many more discoverys as technology improves.