'Upgrading' to skinny tyres pointless for London commuting

Making love to a beautiful bike is very much like handing a woman.

"You've got to stay confident and relaxed, distribute yourself fairly evenly between the front and the back, slow it down and go smoothly round the curves, if it's dry, push hard before exiting the apex, remember there's less grip when it's wet, watch out for the rubber starting to slide unless you keep things rock solid, or just point her in the right direction and let her do all the work, etc."

If it's really wet you can get some splashback in your face, and you're best off taking a change of clothes with you and having a shower afterwards.

^^You can run 28s on 19mm rims, no problem.

You can run 32s on 19 mm rims, no problem.
I once had a go with 38 (or 45? - somewhere in between) on my skinny 19 mm rim, that works too.

I’ve decided I don’t like 23’s any more after slipping on mine on some road debris the other night. 25’s all the way from now on (in London anyway), I can’t be doing with ANOTHER thing that makes me feel anxious while I’m riding.

I have 23's that grip much better than 25's in corners. Tyre choice (not size) and riding technique are more likely the issue.

Seriously; if you're going to use big rubber, you've got to have a wide rim to get the full benefit

Interesting thread.
An article by Frank Berto a few years back in Bicyle Quarterly suggests a 15% tyre deflection as being the ideal when riding (with whatever load) Along with that ensuring you have the correct tyre pressures front & rear taking into account the way you are loaded is fairly important too.
There is a tyre pressure calc here http://www.biketinker.com/2010/bike-resources/optimal-tire-pressure-for-bicycles/ that takes into account tyre size, total weight(rider/load & bike) & load distribution
it's a very handy tool to optimise your pressures and one that you can store all your bikes tyres on so you can make easy comparisons/adjustments taking into account varying loads etc.
As per the diagram below (& the excel sheet per the link) more load/mass is over the rear tyre (hence rear tyres wear faster) so running a wider tyre at the rear makes sense in any case.
According to the venerable Sheldon Brown & others having a wider front tyre gives you a little bit more shock absorbancy & a bit better traction into corners

I gave this a little try out this morning as I had to pump my tyres up anyway. I'd always been a 100psi man for training rides and 120psi for races, not for any particular reason just experience of what I like. It never occurred to me that different front and rear psi's might be worth trying.

At my weight (79kg, 90 with bike and kit) the calculator recommended about 120psi in the rear and about 90 in the front. Which is all on the huge assumption that my weight is distributed 60% over the rear wheel.

I can report that todays fast, spinny, fixed training ride in Essex was not only one of the most comfortable rides I've had on that route but the bike handled just a tiny bit better than it usually does and everything was blissful.

I gave this a little try out this morning as I had to pump my tyres up anyway. I'd always been a 100psi man for training rides and 120psi for races, not for any particular reason just experience of what I like. It never occurred to me that different front and rear psi's might be worth trying.

At my weight (79kg, 90 with bike and kit) the calculator recommended about 120psi in the rear and about 90 in the front. Which is all on the huge assumption that my weight is distributed 60% over the rear wheel.

I can report that todays fast, spinny, fixed training ride in Essex was not only one of the most comfortable rides I've had on that route but the bike handled just a tiny bit better than it usually does and everything was blissful.

How did you eliminate expectation bias?

^^that rim width / tyre width chart is ridiculously conservative.

I ran my 23s today (on 19mm ext rims) at 85f and 90r (I seem to be about 65kg this week). Springy yet predictable ride over Surrey's worst, dealing fine with gravel on high speed corners, twisty descents that were a little greasy in places, no wheelspin on short ~18% sections, and no snakebite when I hit a fucking ridiculous (and cunningly disguised) pothole doing 38mph down Ranmore Common Rd towards Chapel Lane & Boxhill/Westhumble Station.

I find Michelin Pro 3 Races with latex tubes have a little more 'chatter' than Vred Tricomps w/Butyl if run at the same pressures, so go 5psi lower all round.

Basically it was awesome, so ner.

^^that rim width / tyre width chart is ridiculously conservative.

I prefer to think of it as radical. Set against convention wisdom, it's very cautious, which is not quite the same thing as conservative.

^^that rim width / tyre width chart is ridiculously conservative.

I ran my 23s today (on 19mm ext rims) at 85f and 90r (I seem to be about 65kg this week). Springy yet predictable ride over Surrey's worst, dealing fine with gravel on high speed corners, twisty descents that were a little greasy in places, no wheelspin on short ~18% sections, and no snakebite when I hit a fucking ridiculous (and cunningly disguised) pothole doing 38mph down Ranmore Common Rd towards Chapel Lane & Boxhill/Westhumble Station.

I find Michelin Pro 3 Races with latex tubes have a little more 'chatter' than Vred Tricomps w/Butyl if run at the same pressures, so go 5psi lower all round.

Basically it was awesome, so ner.

one day ill grow up to be as awesome

When you can bench 750kg?

lol

I bench 750kg at the cakestop while everyone else is desperately shovelling carbohydrate into their talkholes. The padding on my bench is kept at a precise firmness for optimum support characteristics.

mdcc_tester favours a wider bench as it's the current fashion. His gym buddies think he's 'radical'.

I heard that rigid tyres have less rolling resistance because the steel absorbs shock from the road more effectively. Steel is real

it's the current fashion

It's what other vehicles have been doing for decades, not so much fashion as cycling finally catching up

His gym buddies think he's 'radial'.

Other vehicles have had engines for ages. Admit it - wider tyres are hip. Don't get your sister's jeans in a twist about it.

wider tyres are hip

I don't care, I'll use them anyway if they are faster.

Making love to a beautiful bike is very much like handing a woman.

Ah! So that's where I was going wrong. If only I'd known this when I was eighteen.

^^that rim width / tyre width chart is ridiculously conservative.

I ran my 23s today (on 19mm ext rims) at 85f and 90r (I seem to be about 65kg this week). Springy yet predictable ride over Surrey's worst, dealing fine with gravel on high speed corners, twisty descents that were a little greasy in places, no wheelspin on short ~18% sections, and no snakebite when I hit a fucking ridiculous (and cunningly disguised) pothole doing 38mph down Ranmore Common Rd towards Chapel Lane & Boxhill/Westhumble Station.

I find Michelin Pro 3 Races with latex tubes have a little more 'chatter' than Vred Tricomps w/Butyl if run at the same pressures, so go 5psi lower all round.

Basically it was awesome, so ner.

Following up on this, I've come to the conclusion that for the same ride quality / 'feel' / characteristics, latex tubes need to be run 5psi softer than butyl ones with the same wheel+tyre setup (it could be ~5% less, but I can't say for sure, having only done this at 1 pressure setting, with a sample of 1 rider).

I was slightly surprised by this. If anything, I expected it to be the opposite, with latex tubes giving a more supple ride at the higher pressure; but no.

In the end, latex tubes seem a bit like disc wheels - not really worth the expense, unless you're chasing marginal gains. They sounded nice (like disc wheels), but beyond that, I couldn't tell any difference in handling, or puncture resistance, or ease of fitting, or weight/rotational mass, or rolling resistance beyond what you experience whilst walking the bike along.

I'm back on butyl
Because change has been futile
It's not the new style*.

*Sorry, Ad-Rock, I tried.

I just fitted some NOS late 80's Vittoria tyres to my Lemond Team Z build.

They are a super duper massive 19mm wide, which I knew when I bought them but they look ace and pumped as hard as my shitty pump will take them so I was surprised to find that apart from a small period of adjustment of about 100 yards that featured a minor wobble, ride absolutely fine and feel nice and nippy.

Do I go faster than when riding 25's? Don't really care, I'm not riding the olympic road race anytime soon so that extra second per mile I'll be losing out on or whatever won't give me nightmares.

CSB moment but thought i would add to the towering inferno of empirical evidence this thread is fuelled upon!

I think I'll ride latex and 19mm just to save weight. Weights important ya know!

I think I'll ride latex...to save weight

Latex tubes are generally heavier than the lightest butyl tubes, e.g. Michelin Latex ~75g, Conti Supersonic butyl ~50g

Oh??? I thought that's why ppl rode latex... Why would anyone then?