My ongoing Brooklyn Machine Works Gangsta project

front disc with rear V?

You're completely missing the point Ed....nevermind! :]

I end up trying to figure out what equation I got wrong last night, only to do this stupid diagram;

reach remain constant, but BB end up staying the same, if not further back (example is extreme but enough to show my point), what point am I missing?

Cheers for all the advice, will be thinking hard about how best to adapt it.

illustration work better; Brooklyn V2 with 33.3c tyres on narrow rims;

That's actually looking quite good ed. Maybe you should create a past projects thread to recount its history.

I think a satin black paint job and black decals would finish it off nicely.

I think I'll just get some disc tabs brazed on.
I need a brake, always have, always will.
Don't want it to be a trick bike, and theoretically a fat tyred 26 should have the same diameter as a 23c 700c, and since I love taking it through the nearby forest already, may as well make it as practical as possible!
Will probably just get some 38c cross tyres.

Henry - wanna buy some rokshox forks (not sure which model, not particularly high end), complete with an avid juicy 3 and a hardly used rotor? :D

I end up trying to figure out what equation I got wrong last night, only to do this stupid diagram;

reach remain constant, but BB end up staying the same, if not further back (example is extreme but enough to show my point), what point am I missing?

The point you're missing is that, as that diagram shows, the reach stayed the same after changing the forks and lowering the front end.

Because you thought the reach had got shorter, you moved the saddle back, which increased the reach, thereby facilitating the need for a shorter stem.

If you'd changed nothing you probably wouldn't have even noticed.

Maybe I'm being thick here...

...but if you lower the front end, the saddle and bar tilts downwards slightly(?). So you need to re-balance the saddle... but then the bars have still dropped a bit, right?

If the bars drop a bit even if you tilt them back, the reach has still increased slightly because they're lower. To what extent this is noticeable isn't really my point. But there has been a slight increase, no? In my head the real solution is a spacer under the stem to account for whatever the drop has been on the bottom of the fork.

Also there's FA room on those saddle rails anyway,

i think scott said it best....

Reach is the distance between the bars and the saddle...fitting shorter forks and steepening the angles of the whole bike doesn't magically stretch the top tube Ed.

Maybe I'm being thick here...

...but if you lower the front end, the saddle and bar tilts downwards slightly(?). So you need to re-balance the saddle... but then the bars have still dropped a bit, right?

If the bars drop a bit even if you tilt them back, the reach has still increased slightly because they're lower. To what extent this is noticeable isn't really my point. But there has been a slight increase, no? In my head the real solution is a spacer under the stem to account for whatever the drop has been on the bottom of the fork.

Also there's FA room on those saddle rails anyway,

This was the whole point I was trying to make...Ed was saying that fitting slightly shorter forks had steepened the head angle and so lengthened the reach.
He neglected to mention that it also steepened the seat angle by the same amount...therefore the reach hadn't altered, only his position had. He then compensated for this by moving his saddle up and back and it was THIS which altered the reach...not the lower fork. THAT was my point. :]

reach remain constant, what point am I missing?

Answered one's own question hasn't one? ;]

At last I can get some decent sleep!

I never said lowering the bike magically make the reach longer! merely that lowering the fork simply altered the geo a bit that when tweaked back to it's original set-up, it end up being a tad too long.

HA....lying muddafukka! :]

I have that fork but it's 15mm lower than the original, which is fine but it cause the reach to be longer

As Mr Senior Lovedaddy once said.."And that's the truth, Ruth" ;]

Yeah yeah, I can see where you're coming from which is why I got pretty confused by your respond.

Henry - wanna buy some rokshox forks (not sure which model, not particularly high end), complete with an avid juicy 3 and a hardly used rotor? :D

Not for this bike, but might be interested in the brake...
Need to start work on the projects I've got sitting next to me.
Also need to sell things.

^^^ what a completely boring discussion that turned out to be.

i guess we missed the party, Tristan post the pic of the monstrosity you're riding in the mean time

hahaha nobody needs to see that monster.

next part arrived today -

purchase from ebay, £20 inc postage and stem, not too bad....

also bought some sidi carbon shoes :) can't wait to try em!

Maybe I'm being thick here...

...but if you lower the front end, the saddle and bar tilts downwards slightly(?). So you need to re-balance the saddle... but then the bars have still dropped a bit, right?

If the bars drop a bit even if you tilt them back, the reach has still increased slightly because they're lower. To what extent this is noticeable isn't really my point. But there has been a slight increase, no? In my head the real solution is a spacer under the stem to account for whatever the drop has been on the bottom of the fork.

Also there's FA room on those saddle rails anyway,

Reach is independent of seatpost angle, saddle fore aft position etc (which would cancel each other out, in this example anyway). It is the horizontal distance, measured from BB to HT. If you tilt the bike forward, reach will increase (see pic).

Simples.

...right.

So I was right, but using the definition of "reach" incorrectly? Ed was wrong. Totally.

Anyway we should all leave this poor guys thread alone. It's gone from "has potential" to "self-harm inducing".

haha i find all this stuff interesting, always good to learn more about bike geometry and its effects.....

bike is almost done, just needs wheelset and look keo pedals.

going to pick up the wheels today!

meh. went to pick up wheels, but apparently they won't be ready until friday.

current build, consisting of horrible bmx pedals and a borrowed back wheel....
it works for the time being.

sidi shoes, with cleats i got today, total cost - £40, not bad....
getting some look keo pedals off a mate later in the week

stem looks really short, how long is it?