Show us your Titanium! - Ti and Stainless bikes

For sure, I'm just kidding.

But yeah I think it comes down to it might be a bit comfier/less stiff depending on who you ask but mostly, nobody will know the difference, however people's perception of butted frames is higher and they think they will notice a difference so perceived value may be higher.
Think I'll still pursue finding a factory that will do it. Cost is never going to be low and margin is never going to be high. I'm not trying to start the next specialized. Just trying to make some cool frames that don't break the bank for people like me who couldn't find exactly what they were looking for in the current market.

... apart from the 1lb weight difference.

It's like when Shimano say that 105 feels exactly the same as Ultegra- they're implying that it is basically just as good apart from a bit of weight. And yet everyone buys Ultegra if they can afford it. Weight still matters (or the badge)

I think it's an interesting talking point.

I agree with this :-)

Someone is definitely making butted frames in China as Bearclaw write in plain text that they are made in China and they also claim that the frames are double butted.

@leggy_blonde - yeah, fair, but still, you're only gonna save 1lb if you're riding a 62cm frame. I think he's being fairly up front and honest about the advantages of butting titanium. Just as Gaulzetti was when he designed my Seven.

Clearly I really am an outlier. Even though I could afford it, I chose 105 over Ultegra last time I bought a Shimano groupset!

and anyone riding a 62 isn't going to notice a 1lb difference anyway!

I think buying for yourself with your eyes open is one thing (I have 105 mechs on my "ultegra" cross bikes) but a brand having to sell things is quite different.

@PhilDAS could you do the equivalent the trendy MTB steel frame guys do* and use a double butted down and top tube?

*use one 853 tube with the rest basic 4130 and put the 853 sticker on that one

could you do the equivalent the trendy MTB steel frame guys do* and use a double butted down and top tube?

Aiming for that as it is yes. Butted front triangle, heavily ovalised chainstays and skinny seatstays.
I'd like an ovalised top tube and I'm not sure of the order of machining for tubing. If it's butted and then ovalised, fine. They won't be able to do it the other way around so I may have to chose between round butted or straight gauge oval for the top tube.

Did anyone do the opinion poll yet?

Always get butted if you're offered.

This was also a reference to bottom sex.

I still appreciate your lewd sense of humour

Depends. How much lighter/heavier, how much cheaper/expensive, how much stiffer/less stiff?

The benefits of butted tubes on titanium frames are far more marginal than on steel frames due to the volume of material required to achieve the necessary levels of stiffness on titanium frames and the fact that the volume of material required generally means that butted tubes aren't really required for decent welds.

In terms of marketing value and saleability, I have two titanium road frames (yes, hi Golf Clubbers) and I've no idea whether they use butted tubes or not. I bought them anyway and I love them both dearly, albeit for different reasons. On balance I'd go for butted tubes, all other things being equal, but the problem is all other things won't be equal. In the great grand scheme of things, I'd say it's a factor pretty far down the list.

I was slightly swayed by the fact my Lynksey R470 disc uses 6/4 ti rather than 3/2.5 tubing though. Even if it does mean fugly weld all down the downtube.

yeh me too. Please continue, Snotty.

As a serial Ti user for the last 15 years - in order
Omega plain
Walty plain
Moots plain
Moots plain
Genesis DB
Moots plain
Enigma plain

The ones with the most distinct qualities are Genesis and Enigma. Genesis is the stiffest, Enigma is the most absorbant. So one of each in my mini survey.
Moots is the highest perceived quality and price - and they make a strong case for the materials they choose.
So I think the answer is not really which tubing type, but design intent/gauge/shaping/angles make the most difference. And I would pay a premium to get all those in a butted frame (the weight loss is not important for me).

Thanks, you've some experience then!

I think I'm just going to go ahead with getting a sample from Waltly in straight gauge. If nothing else I can just get a feel for geometry and usability.
In the end, it'll be cheaper and I didn't want to make it premium, I wanted affordable so maybe it's a blessing.

Haven’t cleaned it but freshened up the “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Isen” with some different wheels

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I like it a lot

I keep coming back to look at this, is there a back story?

The backstory is pretty dumb which is why I've not posted up before!

My mate bought a Ribble CGR Ti that was always going to be too big for him so it ended up with me, complete bike with very low mileage, for £900. Obviously I had to mess with it so replaced everything bar the headset and seat collar. But that wasn't enough and I thought a yellow reflective band on the downtube would be a good idea which it was, sort of.

A few months ago I was idly browsing - drink may have been taken - and, looking at the Isen site, saw that they did some "I Can't Believe It's Not Isen" stickers. This amused me - as I said, drink had been taken - so I ordered a set which then sat in my shed unused for a couple of months. Finally I fitted them, reasonably neatly for me, and above is how they look. Which I sort of like but am not in any way tickled about. It is a lively bike to ride though.

TL;DR - in search of laughs, I've ended up with a'joke' that no one understands and I don't find funny.

(For those who want to see the stickers, they are here https://www.isenworkshop.com/accessories/i-cant-believe-its-not-isen-sticker-set)

I don’t know what I did, but it must have been good. Liz bought me a King Cage for the Kish.

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I'm being pushed towards these bolt in inserts for the brake hose. I like them but on this it doesn't make any sense to me. The hole will never be for anything other than a brake hose so I can't see the point in having it removable. Installation of the hose would be marginally easier but that's so infrequent for the life of the bike, I'd rather a smaller hose entry.
Anyone disagree?

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Don't you feed brake and rear derailleur into that hole? In that case it would make sense to swap between mechanical / Di2 / eTap.

That's not right though is it? 105 and Ultegra have different hoods and internals in the shifters.

Ultegra and DA on the other hand...

Electric only. At least on this one.

Edit: And bear in mind that even Di2 from now on is wireless on the front half so doesn't need a hole in the downtube

Edit edit: Though I will be having a di2 hole in the downtube. It can double duty for dynamo

I’m external all the way, but if you have to run an internal this is my favourite route

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The Ribble above has removable ports just like that, makes threading hose through super easy but as you say, it’s not something you do often and not as clean as ‘proper’ internal routing

yeah, that's my point. It is marketed as "basically the same" but it isn't

Sod it, going with the inserts. The alternative is probably uglier.

It'll be hidden by paint anyway