Indexed headset - repair or replace?

Thanks for the tip and the ebay research. Total replacement will mean knocking the races out and putting new ones back, which I have not done before.

So I shall see if a replacement bearing is available first.

Condor tell me this headset was never imported so the distributor can't get spares.

I am thinking of chopping the fork and going threaded. I have just bought a nice Dura Ace headset from Dandy which I could combine with a Nitto Quill stem I have.

I wonder how much Condor or a LBS would charge for chopping, threading and installation.

I am currently musing the draw backs of a threaded stem. I like changing my bars every so often you see.

quill - big backward step, if you don't fancy doing it yersen take the frame and headset to condor, they'll knock out the old and pop in the new, complete with required spacers

you probably wouldn't be able to cut the threads into the steerer without significantly weakening it anyway.

Yes, Bob Jackson* himself has told me it ain't gonna be easy.

*or whoever answers the emails in Leeds.

you probably wouldn't be able to cut the threads into the steerer *without significantly weakening it anyway*.

Never heard this one before, can you explain please? I thought non-treaded steerer tubes were identical to threaded ones, and therefore potentialy threadable without weakening.

I had steerers that did not have enough thread (when using a fork from a larger frame onto a smaller frame) threaded further down by LBS, and that was totally fine... Is this because the tube is thicker or something and intended to receive treads when non-threaded ones are thinner and should not be threaded?

Sorry if I missed something

L

I've been told in the past that cutting into an aluminium steerer (presuming the steerer is ally not steel) is a recipe for disaster, presumably because aluminium has a lower fatigue strength than steel.

extending threads into a steel steerer is different, although that's difficult enough as it's not that common anymore so the dies that people have are not as sharp. lee cooper told me he could extend the threads on my fork 'at my own risk'...

what's the frame/fork by the way?

I have a Bob Jackson Vigorelli. It's a steel frame of course.

Here is the conversation I have had with them

Me

Is there any technical reason I shouldn't have the threadless forks cut down and treaded to enable a quill stem to be installed?

Them

You will not be able to do this as the columns are too hard and will not cut very well. The only way to go from a 1" Threadless to 1" threaded is to change the column.

The whole process may cost almost £75 by the time I add in postage.

A bit pricey just to downgrade my fork to an old technology.

oh right, and yeah i thought it would be difficult.

might be easier to just look for a threaded fork?

why go back?
cons - old technology, limited choice of parts, harder to service, expensive, less adjustment possibly, have to remove tape to swap bars.
pros - looks........

stick with a-head FFS.

You can put threads on an alu steerer, but you really don't want to. Steel takes a thread much better than alu, your really at risk of it failing pretty rapidly. Also the person you borrow the dies off to do it probably won't be happy as alu really wears the tools compared to steel.

If you MUST have a quill steerer, likely easiest to get another fork /steerer thats already 1" threaded, then if you like it, have it resprayed to match frame

it's all grown a bit convoluted from a simple headset replacement, no?

I've been told in the past that cutting into an aluminium steerer (presuming the steerer is ally not steel) is a recipe for disaster, presumably because aluminium has a lower fatigue strength than steel.
Extending threads into a steel steerer is different, although that's difficult enough as it's not that common anymore so the dies that people have are not as sharp. lee cooper told me he could extend the threads on my fork 'at my own risk'...

Thanks for clarifying.

I was actually talking yesterday at forum drinks to a member who works in metal work and he said he threaded steel steerers with no problem in the past. He explained that it's all about to using the right compound while cuting... Sounded easy, but it's his job so...

Now back to that headset problem, I agree with others here, don't go for quill stem if you have a long steerer enough to have a-head. Don't loose the stiffness, don't loose the infinite choice of conponments! Having old bikes, they are all quill stem, it looks good, it works fine, but on at least one of them (the road bike) I wish I had a a-head system...

L

it's all grown a bit convoluted from a simple headset replacement, no?

Yes, that's why this is such a great forum, we talk forever about what we like!

I also have this annoying indexing problem. I took my headset apart and it is only very mildly brinelled - you'd only notice it if you were looking for brinelling, as I was. To be fair, the headset and bearings must be fucking ancient.

Chuck?

I have had a Campag Record headset installed and with the slightest preload on the bearings they bind up. To have the steering useable the nut is only finger tight and the headset is very wobbly and loose. I can't get the balance between loose as hell and stiff as hell.

What could be causing this?

mdcc_tester suggested that perhaps the crown race is not on flat. Here's a picture. I can slide a bit of paper under one side and not the other, but it's really a fraction of a millimeter. Can this really cause my headset to bind so quickly?

For larger image click here.

2 Attachments

Correct size of balls?

Yes, the bearings came with it. I have checked a few times that I have the larger ones at the right end. I have tried assembling it without cages but still no joy.

To begin with the bottom cup was contacting the brake when I tightened up but I have dealt with that.

I feel like there's something else really obvious and I'll be slapping my forehead when I work it out.

Parts assembled in the correct orientation? (I've made this mistake before).

Mhhhm, top and bottom cups the right way? As in, if the balls on top and bottom are different size, the thingies (sorry, English aint my native) that go into the head tube are also. Also just making sure, which way did you put the bearing cages in?

edit: Actually, looking at the picture seems that the rubber seal is somewhere it should not be.

Here's the diagram for the campag headset I have.
The seal is the item named RE006 I believe. I think it's in the right place.

Back to the topic at hand, brinelling. My headset has become brinelled, and I am looking for advice. It's a DA 7400 series, which I believe came with caged bearings earlier which were later replaced with cartridges (haven't taken it apart yet to determine which). To solve this brinelling riddle, the solutions seem to be:

1. Replace cartridge bearings (but can't see from above where exactly to find them). Anyone done this? Would be the preferable route.
   
2. If caged, remove bearings from cage, add one more and lots of grease, then rebuild, being careful they don't fall out and roll down through the gaps in the floorboards.
   
3. Replace entire headset.
   
   

That sound about right?

If it has cartridge bearings, then it's not "indexed" as such, as the bearings are not in contact with the races: replacing the cartridges should resolve the problem.

If you have caged bearings, then i) rotate the races, and/or ii) remove the cage and fit extra loose bearings.

If the races are badly pitted, then a new headset is the only satisfactory solution.

Thanks. Reading around and searching online these cartridges seem to no longer be available, though have seen people talk about opening them up, cleaning/repacking them and restoring them. If anyone knows where to find a new cartridge ...