Cycle campaigning

Not sure if this is the right place, but every time I ride across Waterloo bridge south to north, I wonder about the clusterfuck of a junction/light sequence, for riders coming down from Wellington St, and that shared footpath, which gets you to the Strand. . . . .

Charlie LCC, Oliver, is there any work being done on this to improve it? Or will it just continue to be a clusterfuck for the foresseable?
Yes it is definitely on our list of crap infrastructure that needs sorting out.

Do LCC try to get permission from the relatives before they do flash rides? I think they should, and it might be the reason behind the absence of one today. I remember the vigil for Katharine Gilles being cancelled/postponed earlier this year.
We try to let families know of any planned action and respect their views.
September 2nd ride is "Space for Cycling" for better protection, helping prevent more deaths and injuries. The call is for TfL and DfT to act on the Get Britain Cycling debate in parliament.

September 2nd ride is "Space for Cycling" for better protection, helping prevent more deaths and injuries. The call is for TfL and DfT to act on the Get Britain Cycling debate in parliament.

might this include a call for regulating HGV access to UK urban centres per the LCC Safer Lorries campaign?

about the HGV fatalities in London, is there any analysis of the HGVs involved (similar to this for pedestrians),

e.g.

• what was the purpose of the HGV journey?
  
• what was the size of the HGV?
  
• what was the road category?
  
• what was the time of the journey?
  
• did it have a full set of safety mirrors and sensors/cameras
  
• what was the experience of the driver - did he/she have Cyclist-awareness training?
  

found this,

The LSHTM study found that, between 1992 and 2006, there was an average of 16 cycling fatalities a year. Out of a total of 242 fatalities, sixty per cent (146) of deaths were in inner London, and 96 deaths (40%) were in outer London. Heavy goods vehicles were involved in 103 (43%) of all incidents, and the vehicle was making a left turn in over half of these (53%).

it concludes,

'Heavy goods vehicles are involved in a disproportionate number of cycling fatalities on the capital’s roads. It is for this reason that we are calling for all freight vehicles over 3.5 tonnes to be removed from urban roads, and for safer, alternative solutions to be sought for transporting essential goods.'

{source}

An objective of the TFL Cycle Safety Action Plan is to,

Ensure London continues to be a world leader in developing effective cycling safety improvements, underpinned by analysis and a sound understanding of the causes of collisions

is this analysis available to be viewed by the public?

is it meaningful?

might attempt to compile a simple grid-dataset addressing the questions asked above based on sourced media reports..

This analysis was presented to the cycle safety working group at TfL and will be issued in draft form to group members for comment later this month before being published

about the HGV fatalities in London, is there any analysis of the HGVs involved (similar to this for pedestrians),

e.g.

[]what was the purpose of the HGV journey?
[]what was the size of the HGV?
[]what was the road category?
[]what was the time of the journey?
[]did it have a full set of safety mirrors and sensors/cameras
[]what was the experience of the driver - did he/she have Cyclist-awareness training?

Most of these questions are asked by the Met Police commercial vehicle unit (except possibly the training one). They use this for their own intelligence and for examining the procedures of lorry operators.
This data doesn't necessarily get into the police collision reports so it may not be fully covered in the current research project.

Dear cycle campaigners
It has been mentioned on another thread that there is a view amongst some campaigners that cycle training doesn't work. That the roads are too dangerous. While many do agree that there is value in training people to ride it occurs to me that those who are questioning this may not have experienced training themselves.

Just like The Association of Bikeability Schemes is offering MPs across the country a bikeability training session so they can debate the issues from an informed stance at the parliamentary debate in september. Perhaps campaigners who have yet to get training (many have I know) should also see what it is like. You may be surprised...

There were some Southwark Cyclists whom also said the very same thing (a way to push segregated cycle path).

Think this is how the LCC's pushing for the same thing? cycle training a failure, let have asegregated cycle path?

TBH, it would work better if a bicycle shop offer them rather.

I don't think its an either/or situation. There will always be places where cyclists, even those using segregated routes, could benefit from training but universal training for all wouldn't make every road safe.

The two go hand in hand to improve safety, just like the driving test and a motorway central reservation. We need to make sure that if one of these things is successful that fact isn't used as an excuse to cancel the other.

Well put Dan.
The more and varied the measures to encourage cycling the better

I keep finding myself coming back to using my (far too small to cycle currently) daughter to put forward cycling points.

In this case this one:

Segregated infrastructure will allow my daughter to ride in an environment where I feel that she will be safer. I don't feel that at the moment, I can see a point at which, when she is aged 6 or 7, I am going to be happy with her cycling on the roads as they are.

Does this mean that I wouldn't put her through cycle training if we did have the infrastructure? Hell no. Segregated infrastructure is just a part of what makes people on bikes safer. Training in how to ride safely is too.

Now I think that Bikeability is useful, but that as with any training it must learn to adapt itself to what is out there. There's no point in training people to ride in segregated infrastucture if they are never going to find it, but once it's there, then training people to use it is also important. We should also however recognise that we will likely always need to train people to ride without it, and that thus training will always be needed and helpful.

Dear cycle campaigners
It has been mentioned on another thread that there is a view amongst some campaigners that cycle training doesn't work. That the roads are too dangerous.
What's the thread David? That link's broken.

There were some Southwark Cyclists whom also said the very same thing (a way to push segregated cycle path).

Think this is how the LCC's pushing for the same thing? cycle training a failure, let have asegregated cycle path?

TBH, it would work better if a bicycle shop offer them rather.
I don't think LCC are saying "cycle training is a failure, let's have segregation". There are a great many people, who've been cycling a lot longer than you or I have, who will never be convinced that they should have to share the road with buses, lorries, or any other motor vehicle - they are asking for segregation.

Often, as for MrDrem, a shift happens when we become parents. Even if we don't worry constantly about our own safety on the road, we will be very concerned about our children's.

What's the thread David? That link's broken.
I don't think LCC are saying "cycle training is a failure, let's have segregation".

Link in my post amended
http://www.lfgss.com/thread111163.html

My point is that educating people who cycle (and drive) in addition to other measures including changing infrastructure and speed reduction are all interventions that will make spaces where people feel happy to cycle. Cycle training was mentioned by an LCC staff person at a meeting as something that hasn't worked to get more kids cycling to school.

While even this is a dubious claim ( and I admit that there is a paucity of evidence either way which we are rectifying) the danger of such claims by any LCC official is that it can lead to the powers that fund and who are always looking to make cuts the withdrawing of funds for training.

(He also noted that the roads are too dangerous, which is a meaningless scaremongering statement more likely to put off non-cyclists than encourage them)

I suppose my perception that LCC has shifted its support for bikeability is born out by the fact that that safety advice, once a big feature in London Cyclists mag doesn't appear much any more, that LCC once ensured all new staff underwent training, and Borough officers too. Has LCC's boss had cycle training?

The many values of educating (young) people about riding a bike are outlined in that thread

There are a great many people, who've been cycling a lot longer than you or I have, who will never be convinced that they should have to share the road with buses, lorries, or any other motor vehicle - they are asking for segregation.

.

Who are these long experienced cyclists who won't ride with motor vehicles? (Have they tried cycle training :)

I believe that the current Go Dutch/'separate all the things' fervor was born (-again: we had been through this before and LCC, CTC had concluded to be pragmatic and asses what works in each situation) out of the Understanding Walking and Cycling research project (pdf here)

This research was done in places with low levels of cycling asking why people don't cycle, most people asked were drivers. Of course the answer they got was "because its too dangerous and we'd do it if we could away from the cars". The results of this and their call for separate Dutch style network was picked up by some key loud bloggers some of whom seem blind to successful interventions in places like hackney where there is almost no segregation yet riding in that borough feels easier, more comfortable than most other place in London because of a raft of measures and excellent cooperation between the council and the local cycling group. That kind of working together was happening to a degree at TfL level and some good stuff has been done across London. That should continue...

I'm certain that training does get more people to ride. Just that it will never be widespread enough to get nearly everyone riding. It won't get my daughter riding places on the roads around us until she's far older than kids that do have segregated paths will be riding places.

Skydancer - you're the most likely to know this - what percentage of people who have had cycle training continue to ride at 0 months, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and a year?

How young can my daughter do bikeablility level 3?

The problem is that no one heard of Bikeablility, let alone locals school have (outside London that is).

We try to let families know of any planned action and respect their views.
September 2nd ride is "Space for Cycling" for better protection, helping prevent more deaths and injuries. The call is for TfL and DfT to act on the Get Britain Cycling debate in parliament.
LCC are planning for there to be at least 5,000 participants at the protest ride next Monday 2 September and need more people to marshal/volunteer on the ride as well as provide led rides to Jubilee Gardens. Details below, please email info@lcc.org.uk asap if you can help with any this:

· Experienced RIDE MARSHALS needed. Ideally with experience of mass participation rides, or can attend marshal training at LCC HQ 18:00-20:00 tomorrow Thursday 29 Aug at 2 Newhams Row, London SE1 3UY

· The following local groups are providing LED RIDES to the protest ride; Haringey, Hackney, Southwark, Bromley, and Camden. If you are also providing a led ride, please add the details to this map http://goo.gl/maps/mNfkl or email the details to info@lcc.org.uk and we will promote the ride for you.

· A team of 50** VOLUNTEERS** needed before/after the ride to hand out leaflets and collect email signatures. Ideally able to arrive at Jubilee Gardens for a briefing at 17:00, and to stay until at least 20:00.

Skydancer - you're the most likely to know this - what percentage of people who have had cycle training continue to ride at 0 months, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and a year?

How young can my daughter do bikeablility level 3?

Many adults ride more and further after training
Old data on pdf here
(We've new data we're publishing soon)

For young people we are yet to get decent stats and are working on this at the moment

Regarding age to do Bikeability L3 - depends on your daughter;s skills and understanding of speed and distance. Training is outcome based so anyone ending L2 is ready to start L3

^^ I think I accidentally laughed in one of your guys faces this evening at the bottom of Queen St. He said something about the protest ride to me as I rode past but it was the sign behind him that made me laugh - big banner asking 'Do you want more routes like this?'.
I nearly went back to explain that no I do not want more awful infrastructure that involves a road full of reversing lorries and a shared-use pavement full of peds moving at right-angles to bike traffic in the morning or a road full of peds followed by a 5 minute wait at two sets of lights [heading north] in the evening. They've just 'improved' things by plonking two massive concrete blocks at the southern end too, which causes multiple near misses between bikes and leaves no swerve room to go around non-looking pedestrians.

You should have! I agree, it's rubbish.

If there's someone there tomorrow I will!

They've just 'improved' things by plonking two massive concrete blocks at the southern end too, which causes multiple near misses between bikes and leaves no swerve room to go around non-looking pedestrians.

I've done a lot of Dr Bikes at Queen St during the evening rush hour and though I generally agree with you about the infrastructure there are also a great many cyclists there who cause problems for themselves and others simply by riding too fast for the circumstances. And that is putting it politely.
A bit like Goldsmiths Row in Hackney or, frankly, any other shared use space I have ever seen.

^^ Thank you!

Also Upper Thames Street from Southwark Bridge onwards - so grim but I don't see anything being done to restrict HGV usage or traffic density/speeds in general.

^ Yes. Surrey Canal Path too. 'Shared' seems to mean 'Mainly for me but I'll use you as part of my obstacle course'.