Cycle campaigning

I agree about the slogan David - but like I said, it doesn't have to mean segregation.

Another pedestrian, three years old this time, killed in London today. Is it about time we forgot campaigning just about 'space for cycling' as a primary objective, and started teaming up with pedestrians? When I started a thread about gyratories a while back, part of my reasoning was about how much improved the shoreditch triangle was when returned to two-way traffic, for everybody, specifically vulnerable road users, meaning those who most benefitted were those not in or on any kind of vehicle (except wheelchair users, who I would include with pedestrians as benefitting most).

Time we WALKED our bikes on a march, in solidarity with pedestrians? Seriously?!

'Cities for people, not cars' was a slogan I liked when I heard it years ago. Motor traffic is totally oppressive!

Is it about time we forgot campaigning just about 'space for cycling' as a primary objective, and started teaming up with pedestrians?
Time we WALKED our bikes on a march, in solidarity with pedestrians? Seriously?!

Agree completely!
Its about how we want places to feel and function for everyone.

Cycle campaigners need to team up with people who wish to live in non-motor dominated spaces and speak as one voice (which they do in some places)

Where do we start?

Unfortunately, where I work is outside London, and Cycle Training is almost unheard of, I do my best to ask the parents to pester their school in getting Bikeability as it should be compulsory for school to offer this.

Do they promote/suggest cycle training in bike shops as part of the purchase of a new bike ?

Damned good question^

We've started on some levels Skully. Hackney for example.
Living Streets attend TfL cycle meeting where all camps are working (slowly) to change the 'streetscape' in London. Needs to happen locally and city wide. The use and effect of twitter to galvanise support for the ride today was amazing.
Need a good hashtag (#places4people?)

Do they promote/suggest cycle training in bike shops as part of the purchase of a new bike ?

some do, but the sales industry still operates in its own niches.
#bikebiz

and no one I asked could really say what it means.

and luckily no observer e.g. a pedestrian asked me what it means.

Evans Cycles used to, but they don't do it anymore because it's unprofitable, to them there's no point as the customer is already buying a bike, like the HGV, once they're out of the shop, they're no longer their problem.

good to see Lambeth council giving free dr bike maintenance at waterloo roundabout this eve

some do, but the sales industry still operates in its own niches.
#bikebiz

sort of knew that - the two don't work well together do they ?
Mind you they manage to shift *elmets as 'safety' advice.

I suspect that very few people who work in bike shops have had cycle training or would ever think it might be of any use to them. They are mostly men, like on here.

Evans Cycles used to, but they don't do it anymore because it's unprofitable, to them there's no point as the customer is already buying a bike, like the HGV, once they're out of the shop, they're no longer their problem.

That took me 4 reads to understand because the* like the HGV* is confusing.

As in once the tipper leave the construction site, it's no longer their problem.

Need a good hashtag (#places4people?)

http://www.placesforpeople.co.uk/ is a housebuilder/housing association, too similar I think.

I agree about the slogan David - but like I said, it doesn't have to mean segregation.

Another pedestrian, three years old this time, killed in London today. Is it about time we forgot campaigning just about 'space for cycling' as a primary objective, and started teaming up with pedestrians? When I started a thread about gyratories a while back, part of my reasoning was about how much improved the shoreditch triangle was when returned to two-way traffic, for everybody, specifically vulnerable road users, meaning those who most benefitted were those not in or on any kind of vehicle (except wheelchair users, who I would include with pedestrians as benefitting most).

Time we WALKED our bikes on a march, in solidarity with pedestrians? Seriously?!

Agree completely!
Its about how we want places to feel and function for everyone.

Cycle campaigners need to team up with people who wish to live in non-motor dominated spaces and speak as one voice (which they do in some places)
Which is why my group work with Living Streets. We are all pedestrians at times, after all and it's as dangerous to be a ped in London...

Do they promote/suggest cycle training in bike shops as part of the purchase of a new bike ?

Not my shop no, in fact due to the location there's very little reason to despite the advantage Cycle Training bring, the majority of customer are road rider, MTB (the canal towpath kind) and a bit of commuter whom illegally ride on pavements when possible.

Implementing all this segregated cycling infrastructure would cost millions. It's a hard thing to achieve.

Implementing an HGV ban between 7-10am, and 4-7pm would cost sod-all. It would also make a drastic improvement for all other road users at this time, including buses, pedestrians, cyclists, etc.
As a concession to the industry you can lift the night-time ban, which is surely obsolete anyway given the noise regs on truck engines these days.

It's a complete no-brainer, and if the LCC and various cycling, pedestrian, bus and even motorcycling and driving campaign groups (because they would also benefit) could be persuaded to lobby with the same message it's got to be achievable.

I often think the LCC et al does itself no favours by choosing such meaningless and wishy-washy phrases to promote, with little cohesive substance behind them. They should pick one simple achievable thing at a time, like restricting HGV operating times, and promote it hard, with as many allies as possible.

And when they have achieved that they should try and get stricter liability laws enacted.

Implementing an HGV ban between 7-10am, and 4-7pm would cost sod-all. It would also make a drastic improvement for all other road users at this time, including buses, pedestrians, cyclists, etc.

MDCC I remember explain that it doesn't necessary cost sod all as businesses will have to readapt to the new timetable, lose profit in the process, etc.

I still feel it's the best move thought.

We are all pedestrians at times

We're all mixed-mode users. We're all in this together.

Apart from Skully, the heathen bastard...

Implementing an HGV ban between 7-10am, and 4-7pm would cost sod-all.

Try telling that to the HGV co's whose day shift drivers would be on a 30h week, or awkward split shifts. Whose trucks would be a redundant resource for 2 x 3hr blocks each day, whose drivers might not want to work permanent night shifts.

To firms whose projects are delayed / operating processes affected, and whose staff might not want to work nights (have to be on site to meet the trucks).

To the government bean counter who measures economic growth and is obsessed with movement of resources as a source of said growth.

To the residents at the edge of the exclusion area who end up hosting parking lots of trucks clock watching at 9.55am and 6.55pm respectively.

Please don't think I'm against a change of sorts in all UK cities - as you point out it'd be cheaper than building parallel infrastructure to cater for all bike journeys. It seems you haven't considered your solution from other viewpoints though.

Dare I say, some may even drive at times...

Not my shop no, in fact due to the location there's very little reason to despite the advantage Cycle Training bring, the majority of customer are road rider, MTB (the canal towpath kind) and a bit of commuter whom illegally ride on pavements when possible.

ed, waht?
they kinda sound like they could do with some cycle training...