Cycle campaigning

So rhb, what is your suggested method of making the point that while driving over hammersmith drivers shouldn't overtake because its too narrow and ilegal
Police enforcement?

I said upthread I don't have a viable alternative to offer. For sure that pissing off a small subset of motorists once in a while isn't the appropriate method of bringing about change though.

True
Need to piss them all off all the time every day till they get used to it or get it...

All the antagonised drivers from this morning

I really don't buy into this idea that whenever cyclists gather, they 'antagonise drivers'.

We live in a busy city, there are a lot of protests, and it's just something that happens every once in a while.

Sure, someone somewhere in the queue is likely to get angry, for whatever reason, but at the end of the day people getting together to highlight an issue is just a normal part of city life, and anyone who might get annoyed at a particular protest will want to retain for themselves the right to hold one over issues that concern them. Many who have to wait won't get very angry or annoyed at all, and won't necessarily get annoyed with cyclists in particular.

Hammersmith Bridge
http://lcc.org.uk/articles/serious-crash-on-hammersmith-bridge-prompts-cyclists-to-organise-calm-the-bridge-protest-ride

I like this one. Calming drivers by taking the lane over the bridge. We should do this all over London one morning

I have to do this on some bridges around me,
its o.k as I can go fast enough for it to not be a drama,and theyre not wide enough to allow cars past, but,

can all riders do that ?no
so where do they end up,
on the fucking pavement,
again

True
Need to piss them all off all the time every day till they get used to it or get it...

At least that'd be a more consistent approach...

I really don't buy into this idea that whenever cyclists gather, they 'antagonise drivers'.

Not necessarily "whenever", however there are plenty of occasions where this does occur.

I saw screaming drivers on tweed run 2010, regularly witness anger directed at critical mass (have stopped going lately as a result - it's just no fun), and even have witnessed aggression on club rides and sportives.

It's fair to say a bunch of cyclists, protesting or not, will raise the blood pressure and levels of aggression from a certain mindset of motorist, be it for genuine Clarkson type hateful reasons from them, or just for shits and giggles.

I can see no reason at present to wind these types up further through activity that may be well intentioned, but to a non-cyclist is easily (mis)interpreted as antagonistic.

), and even have witnessed aggression on club rides and sportives.

.

Which are not protests. So you'd succumb to this bullying from drivers for what exactly? An easy life?

That's depressing

But you have a go at me when I do stand up to such bullying, which is depressing.

I am confused.

I don,t mean kicking the radiator grill or smashing the wndscreen with a d lock, I just mean holding your ground

Which are not protests. So you'd succumb to this bullying from drivers for what exactly? An easy life?

That's depressing

I know that, I mentioned them in response to Oliver as other examples of group cycling events which regularly annoy some motorists with conflict as a consequence. I've witnessed, not necessarily succumbed to. Where appropriate I've responded.

Going back to the original action and consequence... The way to change bullying behaviour from one subset of motorists is not to randomly antagonise other motorists, that much should be obvious surely?

If not obvious, please explain how it's bringing about direct behaviour change from the bullying types?

Skydancer - exploring this from a different angle... Where have you made the most high profile progress with hgv's? Working with them to increase understanding of issues and implement change, or getting a group of campaigners to ride slowly in primary position infront of them (i.e. pissing them off)?

I know the organisational structures make it easier to focus and approach haulage co's to work with them, but where you're helping make changes has been by working with them, not via antagonism.

Surely a similar approach towards other motorist groups would be better?

Agree
And the hammersmith bridge idea could be understood as demonstrating how to share the bridge without disrupting traffic flow unlike many other protests. Which is why I liked It

Intelligence has gotta be better.
Which is all good until faced with some braindead trucker not even capable of stringing three words together.

Agree
And the hammersmith bridge idea could be understood as demonstrating how to share the bridge without disrupting traffic flow unlike many other protests. Which is why I liked It

By the cyclists, but not necessarily by the bullying motorist types. To them it could simply still be understood as a bunch of cyclists in "their way".

(we are going round in circles here rhb;)
Some drivers may appreciate the decision of whether or not to overtake being taken away from them. Perhaps would have been good if the protesters had handed out a card with the rationalle behind the action.

^ definitely to handing out info cards, an immediate improvement. What stands out from our circles (with apologies for that) is that this type of direct action appears to have an unclear and unmeasured impact on the target audience.

Can it really be viewed as effective campaigning?

Yes.

No

Maybe

No

Maybe

Convincing argument threre will

(Cross posted) report on the hammersmith bridge action:

hi
It was great to see so many people come out in support of a safer Hammersmith Bridge. There was about 50 of us there. And at such short notice on a holiday weekend with miserable weather. We cycled as a group, a peleton, over the bridge and back three times.
We met on the observation platform at the end of Queen Caroline street. Alexis, the father of 18 year old Clara, was there and talked about the horror story of his daughter. A silver car was overtaking Clara at the first pinch point going south, when a red car coming the other way swerved out of the traffic. It hit the side of the silver car which was taking avoiding action and the silver car pinned Clara and her bike to the pillar. Fortunately Clara was not physically injured.
After the ride we were joined on the platform by Clara and her mother Claude. They became tearful with emotion retelling their story. Claude said she would never ride on the bridge again, it was so dangerous.
We had discussion on the platform about our purpose, our ends and how to achieve them. The main purpose was to draw attention to the dangers of the bridge so that the LBHF might finally do something about it. A 20mph speed limit at least. A secondary purpose was to tell cyclists to hold the lane goig all the way across in a dominant position, so they would not get squeezed. As the day was cool and it was a very long holiday weekend and halfterm there was hardly any other cyclists around to show this to.
Ther was discussion as to whether we should have banners, placards, leaflets to tell car drivers and others what we are doing. Should our purpose be to cause as much disruption as possible. Should we be going around the gyratory and King street in our loops. Should this be done in the rush hour. Would the Council take any more notice?
Next time we will have longer to organise it. Later I will post some pictures on the website www.hfcyclists.org.uk . Enjoy the holiday and the boats and the street parties. And a message from Claude
Dear John,
Thank you again for this morning and thank you for the pictures!
It was really heart warming to see such nice people so concerned about our girl's well being. We had such a fright last week.
Lets hope your actions will have some effect on people's attitude towards cyclists.
Thank you to all you good people!
With all very best wishes
Claude XX
john griffiths
*

signage;

"Narrow Bridge - Do Not Overtake Cyclists"

Acknowledging the fright to the rider and their family, must've been awful situation to have found themselves in.

The main purpose was to draw attention to the dangers of the bridge so that the LBHF might finally do something about it. A 20mph speed limit at least.
Sounds reasonable. Was attention drawn to those who make the decisions?

A secondary purpose was to tell cyclists to hold the lane goig all the way across in a dominant position, so they would not get squeezed. As the day was cool and it was a very long holiday weekend and halfterm there was hardly any other cyclists around to show this to.
Nice intention, however would the other cyclists be receptive to having their journey interrupted to be "educated". It might be received like being chugged or approached by a scientologist when walking down the street...

Ther was discussion as to whether we should have banners, placards, leaflets to tell car drivers and others what we are doing. Should our purpose be to cause as much disruption as possible. Should we be going around the gyratory and King street in our loops. Should this be done in the rush hour.
Now this is the sort of stuff that should be decided upon beforehand. **Bold **conjures up images of barricades and tree houses being built.

As well meaning as it all is, I still can't help but feel it isn't a very effective way of bringing about the changes wanted, as reasoned in the circles we discussed over the weekend.

To any Southies, tonight at 6.30pm is Southwark Cyclists' monthly meeting at**

Better Bankside Community Space, 18 Great Guildford Street behind Tate Modern.**If you want to see what we do and/or get involved with our work please do come along. Bicycles may be brought inside.