Epic WTF

/golfclub

They’ve lost their lustre, frankly. Used to be good for travel but now hardly worth it unless you travel a lot to certain destinations.

A big selling point of platinum cards was additional cards for family who could then use priority pass lounges at airports, but now they have to pay. Centurion lounges have also dropped noticeably in quality in the past 15 or so years, as has the concierge.

I don’t know what black offers these days.

But it is a credit card though?

You're supposed to pay it off straight away.

You’re supposed to pay your credit card off right away…

It's a charge card. You have to pay it off fully each month.

The high apr is because of the annual fee which gets rolled into the calculation somehow

Taxonomically, sure. It’s a charge card rather than a credit card - in that it’s intended use is you can charge everything to the card (and then pay off), rather than to provide a line of credit..

That particular one is a credit card not a charge card. AMEX do both now. (They tend to do both charge and credit card versions of each card.)

I've had an AMEX credit card (just blue thanks) for years but I'd never have the charge card version as I can never guarantee to pay back the balance in full each month.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-13288619/This-American-Express-Platinum-card-APR-704-6-heres-why.html

The APR on actual purchases is 31% for that card but the advertising rules have a specific way of calculating APR based on a low monthly spend so the monthly payments include a contribution to the high (£650) annual fee which makes it look like you are paying way more to cover the costs of those low monthly spends. If you use all of the benefits of the card then you'll make that £650 back easily. AMEX relies on people paying for the platinum card status and then not reaping all of the benefits.

It's called a charge card. You can use it as a credit card if you don't mind about paying the 700%. But nobody does. They arrange to get the balance automatically paid from their bank account every month.

Charge cards were useful when travelling in the 70s and 80s. Amex and Diners Club were the main ones. Debit cards didn't exist and credit card networks were new and still growing. At home everyone paid by cheque in restaurants and shops. But cheques weren't accepted abroad. You'd have to carry cash or use a charge card.

Charge cards were never popular with merchants because they charged a huge commission - 2.5% or so. Maybe 4%. Debit cards charged much less - 1%, 1.5% or something. So debit cards should have made charge cards extinct long ago. I suspect Amex has survived because it has a wanky concierge service and is perceived as a status symbol by the trashy rich.

I suspect Amex has survived because it has a wanky concierge service and is perceived as a status symbol by the trashy rich.

Slightly better cash back is why I have one.

I suspect Amex has survived because it has a wanky concierge service and is perceived as a status symbol by the trashy rich.

They use those higher fees to offer better rewards. If you're spending a lot of money on them the rewards are decent.

It's a credit card.

https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/customer-service/faq.what-the-difference-between-a-credit-card-and-a-charge-card.html

"
With a Charge Card, you have no pre-set spending limit, which means the buying power you have access to can adjust with your use of the Card. You are required to pay your Charge Card balance in full every month.

A Credit Card gives you a set credit limit, so you know how much you can spend each month. With a Credit Card, you are not required to pay your balance in full every month; you can carry your balance from one billing cycle to the next, though a minimum payment is required each billing cycle. Any unpaid balance at the end of a billing period will incur interest charges.
"

Here's the page for the Platinum Credit Card in question that starts with a £1200 credit limit. Note it quotes the 701.4% APR Variable.

Here's an example of an AMEX Charge Card: https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/charge-cards/basic-card/

No spending limit. No talk of APR.

You can use it as a credit card if you don't mind about paying the 700%.

If you get the card and don't use it all the APR is infinite because you're borrowing £0 and paying back £650 of fee (which, under advertising rules, counts towards the APR).

It may be easier to understand with some calculations.

The APR on purchases with the card is ~31% if you don't pay them off within the same month.
The annual fee for the card is £650.

So if you spend £10 on the card each month, and pay it off in full each month, you still pay AMEX back £120 + £650 = £770 a year.

So for "borrowing" (albeit temporarily) £120 you pay back £770.

This gives an APR of 541.67% (to 2.d.p). 650/120 = 5.4167

£120 * 541.67% is the £650 annual fee.

If you spend a more realistic £2000/mo on the card, and pay it off in full each month, then the APR works out at a lot less.

You "borrow" £24000 and pay back £24650. This is an APR of ~2.71%.

If you spent £2000/mo and didn't pay it back in full each month, but paid it back delayed by one month the costs would be:

• £24000 to pay back the principal
  
• £2000 * 31% APR = £620 interest/year (or £51.67 per month)
  
• £650 fee
  
  

This comes to £25270 for the year, so that £1270 extra you pay equates to an APR of 5.29%.

The 700% figure is highly misleading, but I'm glad credit card companies are forced to calculate the APR this way and display it prominently on their advertising.

700% APR is not a feature of a useable credit card. It's really a charge card with a (useless) credit card feature. It's Amex trying to ride 2 horses. And you have to spend 10 grand on it in the first 6 months for it to make any sense. I'm not interested in discussing its relative merits. I'd rather eat my ear wax.

I'd rather eat my ear wax

Impacted?

https://www.monstersupplies.org/collections/edibles/products/impacted_earwax

700% APR is not a feature of a useable credit card. It's really a charge card

I guess my post with actual figures crossed with this last one. It's not 700% unless you barely use it at all AND you don't make use of any of the benefits it provides.

If I got it and used it it'd be about 3% APR for me given my current usage.

And you have to spend 10 grand on it in the first 6 months for it to make any sense.

Plenty of people do though. Quote me in the Golf Club thread but my credit card bill averages about £2k/mo so £10k in 6 months isn't a problem. I wouldn't get the Platinum card as I doubt I'd make enough use of the specific benefits it provides, so I'd end up making a loss on it.

I’m guessing your £2k per month on a credit card is business expenses?

I think I've got ~£100 of business expenses on there a month (a co-working space I can expense).

The rest is just general spending for a family of 3. I just put almost all of my spending on a credit card where possible (for cashback/points/etc). Zipcars (we don't have a car of our own), entertainment and eating/drinking out, groceries for eating in, etc, etc.

The rest is just general spending for a family of 3. I just put almost all of my spending on a credit card where possible (for cashback/points/etc).

Noob question but, why?

I get rewards on my current account/debit card, are you getting much better rewards doing it your way?

one random thing that I learnt about AMEX is they carry your credit history with you. I've had an AMEX for a very long time in the UK, moved to the US, called them, new card sent and boom my US credit history is from the day I got my first AMEX. Like 15+ years before I moved to the US.

It's a niche thing, but that helped me a lot in the first ~6 months here in the states (as I had credit score, I could buy a car, rent easily etc...)

I'd imagine yes the rewards are decent plus if you always pay off the balance or most of it it rockets your credit score which opens up good opportunities

..Ofcom, the media regulator, which dropped a job ad on LinkedIn for a
role combating children’s access to illegal content and pornography
with the apercu, “Always wanted to work in porn but don’t have the
feet for an OnlyFans? Now is your chance.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/20/prince-andrew-christmas-festive-abba-harry-royals

You can see how they got there, via the crushing pressure to be jaunty
on socials and the promise of winning public recognition as a team
leader, yes, but as one with the soul of an entertainer. Ofcom
promptly self-regulated and apologised for the post, putting it down
to “a mistake from a well-intentioned colleague wishing to attract
attention to a recruitment post” – but it was too late. A sharp
reprimand from Lady Kidron, a crossbench peer who campaigns for the
protection of children online, reminded the regulator of something
that apparently can’t be said too often enough or directed too far up
the chain: that they are supposed to be the “grown-ups” in the room.

The rest is just general spending for a family of 3. I just put almost all of my spending on a credit card where possible (for cashback/points/etc).

Noob question but, why?

I get rewards on my current account/debit card, are you getting much better rewards doing it your way?

There's no one true path to the best rewards, this is just how my financial setup has morphed over time. I get a bunch of stuff (AA membership, home emergency cover, holiday insurance, etc) from a paid bank account with Lloyds. When looking for a credit card (apart from my existing Lloyds Mastercard) the AMEX one I got was a good deal and gets me a BA Companion Voucher each year, which is useful to take the edge off holidays.

If I'd had a current account that gave me good cashback/etc then I probably wouldn't have gone with this credit card.

I suppose I could spend hours researching what is the best deal each year and switching around but it's just too much hassle. If my setup is ~70% of the best and hours of work/hassle for the remaining ~25% is not worth it IMHO.

Can we just move this entire conversation to Golf Club?

Between this and the many pages of wank chat, I'm wondering why I'm still following this thread.

Because that's what life is, interest rates and masturbation.

For the moments of gold in the rolled turd.