Secondary Locks

Anyone know where you can get a Kryptonite Evolution Mini for cheap now? The link on the 1st page doesn't seem to work anymore.

A recent purchase:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Masterlock-Street-Fortum-4-Combination-Bike-D-U-Lock-with-LED-Light-Up-Numbers-/221156903836?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_BikeLocks_SR&hash=item337dfa8b9c

Pros:
Very small/light --> portable. 400g.
Supposedly 14mm shackle (see below)

http://i49.tinypic.com/sv3p1l.jpg - Why do manufacturers lie about specs? Its not like 13mm is terrible at this price point.

I'm Steve from Pragmasis. We don't make locks but we have been selling them for years.

A lot of the big-name manufacturers quote thicknesses across the rubber covering on D-lock shackles, just like they tend to do the same on cable 'locks'. They also seem to use their own security rating scales in what we think is a misleading way. E.g. a D-lock may get a rating of 15 out of 15 but they don't make it obvious that is "out of their bicycle D-locks". I think a rating of 15/15 should mean it is at least equal toughness to all other relevant locks they produce, of any type, but I don't think any of them do this. It seems to be most apparent with cable 'locks' where an unwitting buyer might think a high rating gives confidence, but actually it is just a high rating on their 'cable locks' scale which means almost nothing!!!

With regard to this particular lock from Masterlock. we don't have experience of this but I'm afraid we used to sell another lock from them (the well-priced Bicycle Gold "M50D" discus lock) but dropped it and would not touch Masterlock again because we had too many problems with customers' keys breaking off inside the lock, and Masterlock appeared to take no action even after a year, and I think they are still selling that same M50D lock now. We told them we'd much rather have two decent keys rather than four keys that were so flimsey they were likely to break. They didn't seem to care. We are not willing to supply locks that we think have a high chance of failing in such a disastrous way - e.g. we had customers unable to unlock their bikes at the railway station because the key had snapped!

Buying from some of these manufacturers/retailers can save you money in the short term but it doesn't always work out that way in the long term, and unreliable spec's seem to be common, as is changing product under the same product name so it can be difficult to tell what you're buying.

Cheers,

Steve.

Very good to know this.....that Masterlock keys break too frequently in their locks.

Very good to know this.....that Masterlock keys break too frequently in their locks.

It would probably not be fair to say that applies to all their locks; it almost certainly doesn't, but if they have one that had such a problem and they idn't do anything about it, I think it is difficult to have confidence in anything else from them.

Thanks for writing these lists, i don't even own a SS of Fixed Gear bike anymore, but these lock details are very useful for us commuters.

I just purchased a Magnum 3103 for 16 quid off ebay to carry about. I leave a 16mm lock at work. I can confirm the metal shackle is 13mm in diameter and it weighs about 800-900g. It appears to be very similar (identical?) to the OnGuard style locks. I looked at the Abus 40/401 but couldn't see much advantage. Ideally i wanted a 16mm mini lock but couldn't find one (most seem to be 16mm across the rubber outer).

Thanks for writing these lists, I don't even own a SS of Fixed Gear bike anymore, but these lock details are very useful for us commuters.

I just purchased a Magnum 3103 for 16 quid off ebay to carry about. I leave a 16mm lock at work. I can confirm the metal shackle is 13mm in diameter and it weighs about 800-900g. It appears to be very similar (identical?) to the OnGuard style locks. I looked at the Abus 40/401 but couldn't see much advantage. Ideally I wanted a 16mm mini lock but couldn't find one (most seem to be 16mm across the rubber outer).

Good post, and interesting. Cheers.

Though, the OnGuard Brute Mini is 16.8mm in thickness, so it may have been the thickness wanted, but at nearly 3 times the weight, you probably would be very glad for your eventual choice after all.

Isn't the Abus U-Mini 401 a 16mm shackle and good enough for the locks that work thread? Kryptonite New York 3000 is 16mm after all...

Any verdict on this OnGuard combination lock? £17.55 from Amazon www.amazon.co.uk/Onguard-Bulldog-Combo-STD-8010C-Shackle/dp/B00AW7PN4Y/

1 Attachment

Isn't the Abus U-Mini 401 a 16mm shackle and good enough for the locks that work thread? .....

No, its not.

A while ago some manufacturers decided to include the thickness of the rubber housing in the advertised specification of some locks. This was quite dishonest, as some give measurements for the steel, and others give the same measurements for steel plus rubber sheath.

The difficulty with that Abus in particular, is that there is little distinction between the Abus 40 Mini Red, and the Abus 401 Mini Yellow. Both are claimed to be 16mm, but are closer to 13mm for the yellow version, and possibly less for the red version.

http://www.soldsecure.com/search///abus-401130hb-140-u-mini.html
http://www.zyro.co.uk/Product-Category/LOCKS/locks/LOCKS%20D/d-locks/AB4011309/u-mini-401-yellow.aspx

http://www.soldsecure.com/search///abus-40130hb-140-u-mini.html
http://www.zyro.co.uk/Product-Category/LOCKS/locks/LOCKS%20D/d-locks/AB401305/u-mini-red.aspx

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/abus/u-mini-401-d-lock-ec027381#answers
*Staff

After speaking with the supplier of this product i can confirm it is 130mm (13cm)

kind regards
2 years ago

EvansCyclesCCReeceG*

The OnGuard combination U-lock seems a bad idea. Where there would normally be the second strongest part of the lock, they now insert a combination lock.. My prediction is that since the weakest part of the lock is now obvious to anybody, a good hammer and a strong right arm, means the bike will be off to a new owner. Avoid.

Ok, thanks for your feedback.

I know Knog isn't a brand you can have much confidence in... but what about the Knog Bouncer as an alternative to the Evolution Mini? It's a bit lighter at only 800g, 13mm shackle. I found it really cheap from Halfords at £19.54 in black with an extension cable. They sell the white and teal version for £30 and that doesn't come with a cable.

It looks a possible alternative in the 13mm sector..... I'll look into it a bit further.

Re. the onguard, I have one and it "feels" sturdy and comparable in steel dia/weight to say a krypo s2, but agreed it is nowhere near enough for primary security. However I like in in lower risk areas/pub stops for speed of use. Decent multi mount bracket comes with it as well

what about the Knog Bouncer as an alternative to the Evolution Mini? It's a bit lighter at only 800g, 13mm shackle. I found it really cheap from Halfords at £19.54 in black with an extension cable.

I thought that was too good to be true. I tried adding the Bouncer to the basket at that price, and then the price jumped to £49.59!

I'm trying to find a decent secondary lock that's less than 1000g. I know there is
1) Evolution mini-5 - 900g
2) Abus U40 - 980g
3) Abus Granit Futura 64 - only 690g apparently

I'm really tempted by the Futura 64. The price has come done a lot from the insane £65-£75, to £36.46 at Amazon currently. It's Sold Secure Silver too, and this review here are all persuading me. Considering this is meant for a secondary lock, where it doesn't have to be able to withstand the biggest bolt cutter attacks. What do you think?

These locks will mostly be 13mm/14mm, as that is certainly acceptable for securing a front wheel-to-frame situation.

what about this suggestion: Ditch the weight! (Atomic 22)

what about this suggestion: Ditch the weight! (Atomic 22)

1) They are so expensive
2) They don't offer any deterrent
3) They can offer false security
4) They don't imobilise the bike

They cost even more than a high end D-lock like a Fahg Mini. Theives will think the bike is not secured properly and will damage the bike trying to steal it. Even if they fail and then give up, they will probably kick the wheels in in frustration. These locking devices won't stop your saddle being stolen for example. Someone can just saw through the seatpost to take the saddle (it has happened). A D-lock on the front wheel will first need to be broken if the bike is to be ridden away, whereas locking skewers won't need to be broken first.

what about this suggestion: Ditch the weight! (Atomic 22)

To be honest, I thought your suggestion was a wind-up? As said above, if a thief cannot see the deterrent, he will start by yanking, then move on to hammering, or twisting. Your bike might still be there when you get back, but it would be ruined.

Atomic 22 are excellent, but not if used on its own. It needs to have a strong deterrent in use alongside it, that thieves can see when approaching the bike....even in the dark.

howradmichello, if you happen to work for Atomic22, you have just done your company a large disservice, by demonstrating your lack of cognition of very simple security concepts.

So, ball-bearings superglued inside Allen heads are a deterrent, but security skewers/nuts aren't?
And a second D-lock through your front wheel and frame somehow prevents your seat from getting stolen?
What?

BTW, I still have the Abus Granit Futura 64 that I paid sixty-five quid for 8 years ago. Fucking ace lock, nobody ever messed with it in London and it was often the only lock on my bike. Front wheel was secured with a simple Allen (non-Q/R) skewer. Worth its RRP.

You misunderstood. Skewer locks on their own......are not to be recommended. Security needs to have a deterrent effect also, which is why superglue and ball bearings needs to be used WITH a strong and visible lock. And of course the same would be true for a skewer-only solution.

So, ball-bearings superglued inside Allen heads are a deterrent, but security skewers/nuts aren't?

And a second D-lock through your front wheel and frame somehow prevents your seat from getting stolen?
What?

If someone is going to steal your forks, then security nuts will be a help. But you can superglue a ball bearing and get the same effect. For the saddle, you migh believe that you have secured it by spending all that money and listening to the manufacturers claims, but if your saddle is valuable, it won't make much difference.

If you have a really valuable bike and lock it well like with a Fahg Mini for the frame and rear wheel, Evo Mini for the front wheel, then a locking skewer for the front wheel can help. Because theives might try to break the less secure D-lock just for the wheel. Plus you can't really secure a wheel with a superglued ball baring.

BTW, I still have the Abus Granit Futura 64 that I paid sixty-five quid for 8 years ago. Fucking ace lock, nobody ever messed with it in London and it was often the only lock on my bike. Front wheel was secured with a simple Allen (non-Q/R) skewer. Worth its RRP.

Thanks! I'm so tempted. £36.46 at Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Abus-Futura-64-Mini-U-Lock/dp/B0026B4RBO

GA2G, should it really be excluded from the secondary locks list just because it's 11mm? It is Sold Secure Silver like the Evo Mini. A lower quality lock thats easier to break and Bronze rated could make it onto the list just by being thicker and heavier, it seems.

howradmichello, if you happen to work for Atomic22, you have just done your company a large disservice, by demonstrating your lack of cognition of very simple security concepts.

i met the couple behind Atomic 22 at the Brick Lane Spin London event, finding them very likeable; their motivation was clearly problem-solving; i like their solutions..

Atomic 22 are excellent, but not if used on its own. It needs to have a strong deterrent in use alongside it, that thieves can see when approaching the bike....even in the dark.

right, so a primary lock; their skewer is presented as a cheaper and lighter alternative to the second lock

A D-lock on the front wheel will first need to be broken if the bike is to be ridden away, whereas locking skewers won't need to be broken first.

right, good point, so an advantage of the second lock (missing from the Atomic 22 graphic) is the extra theft-detterent being that they've got to break two locks to ride away the bicycle;

i guess the A22 solution works for somebody who is concerned simply about their front wheel being stolen, and the two-locks solution is more for somebody who wants double-lock security;

For the saddle, you migh believe that you have secured it by spending all that money and listening to the manufacturers claims, but if your saddle is valuable, it won't make much difference.

about saddle security, if you've got something like a Brooks, some sort of custom marking e.g. initials, visible on the side, might well deter a theft attempt,

right, so a primary lock; their skewer is presented as a cheaper and lighter alternative to the second lock

Cheaper?!? A single QR skewer alone costs about the same as a Fahg Mini!

These locking nuts and skewers are not really an alternative, they are more of an extra. For people with lots of money, and probably a bike that's too expensive for it to be left on the streets as it is.

Thanks! I'm so tempted. £36.46 at Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Abus-Futura-64-Mini-U-Lock/dp/B0026B4RBO

GA2G, should it really be excluded from the secondary locks list just because it's 11mm? It is Sold Secure Silver like the Evo Mini. A lower quality lock thats easier to break and Bronze rated could make it onto the list just by being thicker and heavier, it seems.

This review is why its not made the list (so far)......it may do (though it will have to show its worth it). I'll have to look into it a bit more. But at the moment, I remain to be convinced.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/locks/product/review-abus--granit-futura-09-33986

This review is why its not made the list (so far)......it may do (though it will have to show its worth it). I'll have to look into it a bit more. But at the moment, I remain to be convinced.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/locks/product/review-abus--granit-futura-09-33986

I'm doing my best to find comparative reviews using an Evo Mini as a benchmark. It's not easy.

An Evo Mini can be broken with just a lever as best I can work out by looking at the user submitted pictures on Amazon. It is also thin enough to be bolt cropped (probably). And AFAIK, you only have to cut 1 side and then rotate it rather than cutting both sides. All in all, the Evo Mini is not good enough as a primary lock as it can be broken with hand tools.

By that standard, is there anything to show how the Futura 64 falls short? The road.cc review showed it can't be bolt cropped that easily at least... http://road.cc/content/review/34832-abus-granit-futura-mini-u-lock. Saying it was not broken in 5 minutes with "the big bolt cutters" and "with the help of a 2 ton bottle jack". If it was tough enough to resist all hand tool attacks, it would be for the "Locks that work" thread ;).