Gender conditioning

I have a harm reduction approach to this. Gender stereotypes are a bitch, but trying to de-gender my kids will end up with more damage. The best I can do is to provide models that there isn't anything anyone could not do or be because of he's a girl or a boy.

I agree, but just to reinforce the distinction I made between gender identity and gender stereotypes: Reducing gender stereotypes will not necessarily lead to a loss of gender identity. Take simple examples--for instance, a lot of fathers are afraid of showing affection for their sons in public. Just showing that affection isn't going to ruin a boy's gender identity but may break up a stereotype.

Is there any hot babes to look out for?

I take the joke, of course, but you may be aware that trying to add a note of levity in this way, while it may work for you, has often been felt to be pretty tiresome by a lot of people on the forum, and has been discussed at nauseam:

http://www.lfgss.com/thread29207.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

That's a truly horrible case.

Anyway, it's a fairly inexhaustible topic and hugely interesting. I'm very much enjoying watching the Women's World Cup at the moment, as that will hopefully break up a few silly stereotypes about women's sport. Obviously, some way needs to be found to ensure that the opposite happens about what men 'cannot' do, too. :)

I'd like to volunteer Balki for championship cross-stitch and skipping.

There is this video that my mum shot in my formative years where she dressed me up as a girl and put my hair in a ponytail and made me say "Hello mummy, my name is Antoinette"

Mummy wanted a girl?

my daughter was given free reign in the shoe shop yesterday. She picked out sandals that were so glittery and pink and sickly sweet I instantly contracted type 2 diabetes.

:-D

You're cool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

My little one kept saying she's a boy until she started nursery last Winter. Now she know she's a girl.

Im inclined to agree with Luci, although I do wonder what effect the total media saturation of kids from a young age is.

This thread reminded me of this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13581835

Which does kind of throw up some ethical issues for me

Parents keep child's gender secret

Is reposting a typically male thing, you know, I am too important actually to read a thread before I post, or is it gender neutral?

Bloody hell, they have guts!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43199936/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/t/mom-defends-keeping-babys-gender-secret/

Both my 8 and 6 year old girls from a very early age had a clear idea on what they wanted to wear. The older is a tomboy - trousers, ben 10, hates barbie, hannah montana, pink - has football posters on wall etc.

However she has clear "girly" characteristics; empathetic, caring, not massive into rough and tumble, doesn't really like playing football.....In contrast the younger is very into her clothes, has about 15 hair clips, bobbles etc in her hair at any one time, loves her glittery scarves, hello kitty.... in essence although they outwardly are very different in appearance and interests, they are in fact pretty similar in their feminine nature.

I've never tried to influence them (well I did once offer the older one 20 pounds if she would wear an alice band for 1 minute). They are who they are and there is precious little anyone can really do to change that.

I think I chose the title poorly, I just wanted to start a thread on all this (oddly at 5amish), as I also saw that link a couple of months about the parents not revealing gender of their child, and it's been on my mind ever since. So where better than post it here and see what debates/opinions of others are.

I think I would let my child be. Whatever toy they want, regardless of their gender, they can have. If my wouldtobe son was more 'feminine' from a early age or visa versca, I don't care, as long the child is healthy and happy.

It is definitely interesting to hear all different thoughts though, and gives me a new perspective.

P.s when I talked about blue for boys and pink for girls, i mean like when you have a newborn and people run out to buy a LOT of one colour. Does that make sense? Like, "oohh a pink pram for my daughter!", rather than "ohh, a nice funky coloured pram."

You want a child?

You know how it works, Stefan. I will do this and that and in the end you're just another strict old fashioned parent. Fact.

I don't think that there would be anything wrong with boys and girls slightly drifting towards gender stereotypes. I would argue that if it's a 'slight' drift, we're not talking about gender stereotypes any more.
...

...Anyway, it's a fairly inexhaustible topic and hugely interesting. I'm very much enjoying watching the Women's World Cup at the moment, as that will hopefully break up a few silly stereotypes about women's sport.

Apart from the efficient German fussball!

You want a child?

Eventually when I'm older...

You know how it works, Stefan. I will do this and that and in the end you're just another strict old fashioned parent. Fact.

Cept me and you aren't the same age generation :P

Children are great, seeing my god daughters develop personalities and sexualities was amazing. What got me was when one of them had medical issues and was in pain, it hurt me to see her like that.

Would you worry more about things about seeing a naked body or kissing?

E
Cept me and you aren't the same age generation :P

Me and my dad neither. Think about it.
Do you really think you're much different to me when I was 20? :-)

Who knows!

Me and my dad neither. Think about it.
Do you really think you're much different to me when I was 20? :-)

Differing up brings also have an amazing effect on conditioning. Even i notice the difference from my upbringing to ex girlfrinds.

I'd like to volunteer Balki for championship cross-stitch and skipping.

I bought a skipping rope less than two weeks ago. Its really good.

As liberal as you can be, something changes once you've got that little one. Priorities change. You will become more protective over your child.

Let's say you were smoking weed at 14, but you'd still hate to catch your child smoking it even at 17.
It's an example of course, because those boundaries are different from person to person.

what does your child have to do with my skipping rope?

Hopefully not much. We need to protect our young ones from the likes of you.

Stoner kid anyway

For or against?
Do you think it can be damaging in one way or the other?

Personally, I hate the whole blue/toy cars for baby boys, pink/dollies for baby girls. Everything should be neutral.

Opinions?

You are actually more perceptive than you might imagine.

There has been a lot of very good science done in the area of gender identity and the role social paradigms, cultural influences and environmental cues play on gender definition in the nascent identity forming period of pre-sexual children, for example in one large 1996 study (n> 1,400 / Marcel, BimCoup et al) it was shown that non-reciprocal and uni-diverse non-causal relationships (especially through the father son/mother daughter channelling effects of non-linear cultural relatedness) lead to a transgressing of the normative boundaries and towards a transformative hermeneutics of gender specific self-realizations - especially in those with no formal (or pre-cognated) absorption of the peer level non-hierarchical gender model (essentially a modification of the Blaus Karbie archetype - ie: male > male (<⊄) / female < female (>⊄) // both positions reversing with each valid iteration of accepted social cues (usually a mother to child behavioural approval prompt)) - this transgressing of the boundaries manifested itself (in the overwhelming majority of the study group, (m /n>660 - f/n>740)) in a predominance of 'benders' (>n/15), a number of secondary level 'gaylords' (<n/02) as well as reports of a couple of lesbos.