Primary position

Wondering if Primary position would've prevented this overtake:

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Possibly or perhaps on-bike HGV driver training may have helped the driver understand

Wondering if Primary position would've prevented this overtake.

It likely to prevent the driver from overtaking, and if he still choose to overtake, you have more room to manoeuvre away from the huge trailer.

yeah, its a sad indictment of some of the firms we share the roads with.
fat twat

^^^ hope he gets offered this.

^^ yes, indeed or perhaps he'd have just honked before barrelling through.

Wondering if Primary position would've prevented this overtake:

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Big fat cunt in all meanings of phrase.

theres two ways that were really part of the traffic.
were either- "inviting" ie. in a place that we are happy to let vehicles past us,
or,
"asserting" ie. in a place where we are controlling the space, taking the lane,

Im using the phrases more and more on training, as they fit with most drillls too.
what do the instructors think?

Wondering if Primary position would've prevented this overtake:

HY62 KGZ meachers - YouTube

Sad to see this appear on a day two lejog cyclists were killed "in collision" with a lorry.
Perhaps it's the 1st person cam, or the fact I now cycle along roads like this on my commute, but I could feel my heart rate increase at the end of that film. I'd have hit that fat fuck without a doubt.

There is a new wave of undertaking in town.

Cabbie "There's room for both of us"

Yeah there would be, assuming neither of deviated moved more than 6 inches from our lines and with London traffic and England's love of potholes, that's fucking unlikely.

So, I tell you what - how about you fuck off?

The daily Telegraph puts it so well:

One of the purposes of primary position is to prevent motorists from attempting to overtake. This is often essential for the safety of both the cyclist and the motorist. The minor inconvenience suffered by a motorist ‘held up’ by a cyclist in primary position is more than compensated for by the safety of both parties.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/10604525/Cycling-advert-ban-why-cyclists-must-take-the-middle-of-the-lane.html

Fuck me, that must have made Clarkson choke on his breakfast sausage!

^ So that's what he calls Richard Hammond now, is it?

The daily Telegraph puts it so well:

Erm ... presumably you also spotted the bits that weren't put very well?

British Cycling’s own safety training, Bikeability, makes it explicitly clear that cyclists must always position themselves at least 0.5 metres from the kerb.

Unfortunately, many cycle lanes in the UK are less than 0.5m in width, which leads to the popular misconception that cyclists belong in the gutter.

(1) It's not 'British Cycling's own safety training'--it's a national standard.

(2) It certainly doesn't contain the advice 'cyclists must always position themselves at least 0.5 metres from the kerb'. Obviously, even being 0.5m out is still 'riding in the gutter'.

(3) I doubt very much that, crap cycle lanes notwithstanding, there's a single cycle lane in the country that's under 0.5m in width.

When using the road a pedestrian (due to no pavement being available)
What is the recommend road position?

Assuming its a straight road and you are correctly facing on coming traffic?

Hugging the curb giving traffic most room to pass but harder to see
Or out assertively out from the kerb?

^ take the lane but be prepared to dive into the hedge

^^ blimey.

The best option is to walk on the opposing lane, which make it easier to see incoming vehicles without having to look behind/rely on sound.

Assuming its a straight road and you are correctly facing on coming traffic?

Move along, Ed. You're answering the wrong question.

I'd go for visibility, Tommy. If it's a straight road, you should have plenty of time to see oncoming traffic and react if they are going stupidly fast. And if they're not stupid, you're giving them more chance to see you.

Didn't see that, whoop.

Too busy looking at the keyboard.

The daily Telegraph puts it so well:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/10604525/Cycling-advert-ban-why-cyclists-must-take-the-middle-of-the-lane.html

I do not like the way they have phrased this. Sure we take primary to prevent people overtaking, but only at turns and roundabouts etc.. otherwise nope. This statement makes it sound like cyclists are smugly holding drivers up.

Is there a go to web page to help educate people on this matter?

This happened last Friday
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cyclist-killed-on-sydney-road-brunswick-20150227-13r31t.html
Tl:dr young man, car door, truck, so tragic

Now there are campaigns and a critical mass to get cars removed from the road and I feel like everyone has missed the point entirely.
I have not heard one person in Melbourne mention primary position, nor have I seen anyone do it.
It has to start somewhere. How do I bring this to position to them?

What does the Australian law state about riding in primary position?

Joni, you want to make a wider point about cycle training. Taking the 'primary position' is merely one technique that gets taught within this. It is also, all too often, misunderstood as constituting 'vehicular cycling', which is nonsense--vehicular cycling includes lots of techniques and is actually, in summary, simply 'riding a bicycle in accordance with the rules for drivers of vehicles'.

Ed is spot on in asking about the state of the law--whether or not riders are allowed to observe the rules for drivers of vehicles depends on whether this is legally permitted in the first place. There are plenty of places in the world in which the rules for drivers and riders differ quite considerably (usually to the detriment of the rider; at its heart this is a battle about rights).

As examples, in the US, taking the lane is expressly permitted (by federal and not state-specific legislation, I believe, although I may be wrong) in lanes up to 14' in width, and in Britain the legislation is typically silent about it, meaning that it is permitted. I have no idea what the law says on that in Australia, and a quick web search doesn't give answers.

Once you've established this (and seen what can lawfully be advocated), it is worth embedding taking the primary position in its proper context. As I said above, too many people wrongly believe that it is somehow a standalone thing (loads of daft blog posts about that). Instead, as I said above, it is one of the techniques in vehicular cycling, which in turn is part of effective cycling (and the latter also includes things such as being able to fix (some of the likely problems with) your own bike.

The main reason for what you're probably seeing in Melbourne at the moment is the general ignorance of the basic skillset involved in cycling--knowing how to lock, how to clean, how to repair, and last but not least how to ride a bike, to name just a few things. Occupations whose skills are not widely known, practised, or accepted in a society will enjoy a lower social standing, e.g. people think that riding a bike is very easy and that for the most part it's poor (or foolhardy) people who do it. Embedding these skills in a society is the key to changing things. For instance, decades ago swimming wasn't valued, and people thought that those who went into the water deliberately weren't quite right in the head. Today it's generally acknowledged as an essential skill.

Obviously, Australia has a bit of a mountain to climb in this regard. It is worth noting that some of the most visible people connected with cycling, e.g. racing cyclists, whom some people would expect to have all the skills, often have a very one-sided and limited skillset, e.g. in relation to riding in mixed traffic--they're great at riding in bunches of racers at very close quarters, because there they know that certain reliable social standards apply and this makes others' behaviour predictable to them. Where such standards don't exist and interaction of different modes is ill-defined, they often have considerable problems, and some humble commuter who could never win a race if they tried might have much better skills.

skydancer may know whether there are any budding training providers in Australia.

I know none of this widening of the scope necessarily makes it easier--it's a lot of hard work! Good luck.

@ wicksie
Patrick Jones runs Bikewise. Was trained by CTUK and is supported by Clover Moore, Sydney Mayor and her transport department
http://www.bikewise.com.au/