Primary position

decent infrastructure = better behaviour.

decent infrastructure = better behaviour.

I would like to believe that...

but I know we will need better (but unpopular) enforcment of existing laws too. Bad drivers need banning/retraining.

We will know when our work is done, when it is no longer legally/socially acceptable to say, "sorry mate I diddn't see you".

decent infrastructure = better behaviour.

Melbourne has faster, wider, better designed roads than most of the UK.

Result: Most ignorant, inconsiderate fuckwit drivers ever.

While Berlin, also with nice wide roads and good provision for cyclists, is mostly delightful to ride around. But then so is Bruges, which has a completely mediaeval street plan and no special provision for cycling at all. The only thing both places share is a huge number of people cycling. Whether better infrastructure can get those numbers cycling in a city where they aren't already, well...

Better infrastructure does help. The discussion is usually just about what kind of infrastructure.

On a lighter note, my instructor mate, "M" who recently moved to Bristol reports that drivers there regularly fail to try to pass him at pinch points, give way when they should and generally seem to be in less of a rush. As a consequence "taking the lane" has been less of an issue for him. Are Bristolians (??) more chilled?

In London, they're just, ah, mad, aren't they? They just mark us better over there. :)

Having toured London with some people from other towns this week end (see http://www.lfgss.com/thread72800.html riders included Dave Horton from Lancaster, Andy selkeld from Leicester and people from sustains, ctc, lcc, southwark cyclists came for the ride from lmnh via hackney to southhwark, stockwell and back through Lambeth back to newington green. Aroun18 miles on cycle network, main roads, superhighways.

They were amazed by 2 main things. The density of traffic was much lower than expected and drivers were patient and generally polite giving room, passing wide and waiting when they needed to. We rode 2 abreast the whole time. Only one driver hooted us when 2 of us rode the road rather than the segregated cycle lane on Percival street crossing st John st. They also hadm't realised the number of cyclists now riding in Londony

thanks due to tom bogdanowicz from LCC who guided us around islington and Peter wood from southwark cyclists for his knowledge of southwark. Mark from i-bike London for meeting us at the start and Oliver schick for general support. the guys also appreciated meeting Oliver at Junos bar at the BFF and the free booze from lfgss. I will forward their thoughts on the walking and cycling thread in due course

"sustains" David? isnt that the breakfast cereal manufacturer..

SUSTRANS (the iPad spell corrected hasn't heard of sustrans)

bloody jobsworths

...included Dave Horton from Lancaster...

Good job Dave et al.

thanks due to tom bogdanowicz from LCC who guided us around islington and Peter wood from southwark cyclists for his knowledge of southwark. Mark from i-bike London for meeting us at the start and Oliver schick for general support. the guys also appreciated meeting Oliver at Junos bar at the BFF and the free booze from lfgss. I will forward their thoughts on the walking and cycling thread in due course

I wish I could have come along!

primary position in California - work. (between Folsom - Sacramento - San Francisco at least).

That is unless the shoulder is big enough to take me though (especially on Highway 37 where the speed limit is 65mph).

That is great. It goes a step further than this Oregon sign.

I saw the 'allowed used of full lane' in San Francisco but it appear to be temporary due to roadwork on the bicycle lane though;

I want to replicate those sings and mount them over here.

Californian law;

(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.

Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997

I think part of the problem is the language used in Bikeability. 'Primary' implies 'default' when, as I think general judgement on here is, it's actually an appropriate option in some situations. I would never use the phrase 'primary' with a client.

I prefer to said "ride where you can be seen by other" than primary.

That is great. It goes a step further than this Oregon sign.

how about a run of forum tshirts with that sign large and visible on the back?

Ed why tf arent you down at the Golden Gate doing fun stuff with girls on rollerblades or some shit, getting ready for a delicious outdoor cali sunset instead of chatting crap on here?

Because I'm back in Sacramento, have been in SF for the past two days.

let you off then. now I can see why being on here may be better than being out in Sacramento, no offense Sacramentoans? Scaramentos? Sackcrackmen?