Orient Express - Cheap Chinese Rims / Wheels / Forks / Frames / Cranks / Etc

That's why threads like these, contributed to by communities such as ours are so valuable.

I should be able to ride my new wheels on Sunday- and I'll report back.

Or, possibly, a coroner will report back.

But- at least the community will have more genuine feedback to go on, and members can make a more informed choice in future.

I really hope the rims work out, but I'm fully prepared for them to have been a waste of time and money.

Worth it if they do work out though- then it's Farsports rims/Tune hubs/CX-RAY spokes time.

That's why threads like these, contributed to by communities such as ours are so valuable.

Bought my rims on the back of a RBR thread. There's a massive thread regarding the various OEM frames on the market too.
The trouble is, most people dont like to admitt that they mad a bad purchase. So you need to take posts with a pinch of salt.

Worth it if they do work out though- then it's Farsports rims/Tune hubs/CX-RAY spokes time.

Very original ;)

Hidden nipples and triplet lacing please.

I should have my roadie on the road after my hols. I'll let you know how my wheels ride. I expect them to feel fast because they're light, and I expect the hubs to be smooth because they're Tune. What I'm not sure about, is if they will be as responsive as I desperately want them to be.

Interestingly (not really). I used a taiwanese version of CX-rays (although deeper for the rear), and am about to rebuild my fixed wheelsetset with a taiwanese version of DT revs. So its not just the rims and hubs you can save on.

I found this review via BR which has an interesting little intro about open mould designs.

I don't build the wheels myself, so I purchase the spokes and nipples from the wheelbuilder.

BC do CX-RAY, so that's (probably) what I'll go for if these wheels workout.

I hear you on the "why" for internal nipples, but with tubs you would have to pull the tyre off to true them up, so I went for weaker but more convenient external nipples.

Radial front and two cross rear, also- very dull I know.

Three coats of glue on the rims now, tyres go on tomorrow morning.

Worth it if they do work out though- then it's Farsports rims/Tune hubs/CX-RAY spokes time.

I've a pair of Lew VT rims, laced to Tune hubs with CX-Rays that I'm going to sell so if your wheels do work out we should have a chat.

I think this is a bit of a myth to be honest.

The idea that the factory in china that makes a high end trek frame, makes a few extra and doesnt brand them. Making them with the same quality of materials and using the same amount of time and skill, to produce the quality. Trek require for QC.

The fact is most carbon fiber bike parts are are produced in the east. The factorys therefore have the materials, equipment, and skills to produce the sort of quality the big names make us pay the big bucks for.

But do they use these on their OEM stuff? who knows. Its he branding that gives accountablility. You save a bunch of money in return for taking a bit of a risk. Wether or not its worth it, is down to the individual.

(FTR. I've bought a load of OEM carbon products. I have also paid extra to buy 'inhouse' produced goods. (fence sitter))

This isn't exactly what I'm saying. What I am saying is that these parts are manufactured in Asia anyway and then bought by Trek/Spec/Etc. They'll buy a fixed quantity and these will then be branded and packaged according to the buyer. The same thing happens with all manner of goods, jeans, trainers, etc. What we in the west pay a premium for is the brand (name/labels/stickers) and the packaging over the true value of the product in terms of its cost to manufacture.

Branding may well give accountability but when the product itself is the same what's the risk? I say this with the cynicism and knowledge of having worked in the advertising industry for almost 20 years.

For example, a well known and very good mechanic on these very boards saw the carbon forks I picked up for a song (under £50 new) from Hong Kong on eBay on my Fuji track. He was impressed and was convinced I'd just taken the stickers off what he thought were forks from a well known Italian brand. I let him believe what he wanted to believe. Pretty much as brands do with us.

I disagree about the jeans comment. A lot of high branded jeans are made in Mexico / Turkey, not China. Levis also have re-launched USA made Levis, but at an eye watering 250 USD a pair.

I disagree about the jeans comment. A lot of high branded jeans are made in Mexico / Turkey, not China. Levis also have re-launched USA made Levis, but at an eye watering 250 USD a pair.

I said Asia not China (a lot are still made in Asia), and the point is that they are made in parts of the world where the cost of labour is significantly cheaper than Europe/US. Hence the cost of manufacturing the product being very low.

Mexico is hardly known for it's affluent middle class, unless of course you're including the drug barons.

These forks look eerily similar to the ones stuck on my BMC... minus all the stickers

Wonder if they are indeed the same?

If they are then they ride well, if not amazingly stiff laterally

the forks in the OP feel more flexy than the forks on my BMC SL01, I will say that. But that's not a bad thing when riding an oversized aluminium frame around london.

This isn't exactly what I'm saying...
....

?

Isnt it exactly what you're saying?

Cheap Chinese parts = expensive branded parts without stickers

I don't doubt that some of the cheap Chinese stuff is good quality, but you don't have the comfort or knowing. You also don't have the warrantee protection/ease. There are obviously the usual counters to those points, but I still think it's a stretch to say they're the same.

I'm also inclined to agree with SF on the possibility that some people who've bought these parts might not be that honest about owning up when they have a dud.

Also this is worth a read on the differences in materials and QC etc. http://road.cc/content/review/37954-onix-azzuro

I know, which is why I said that it was a possibility. I admit that I havent fully read the BR thread, but I did top'n tail and skimmed through. The overall impression I got was that all of these parts a great with next to no downsides.

Whereas here, most people have come across as giving a fairly level response...which I trust more. Even though the BR thread runs to many more pages than anything on here. So it should be more reliable. Anyway I will go and read it properly.

Personally if I needed some cheap new forks and there were no obvious deals on 2nd hand ones I'd get a set. Wheels...probably not, but that's more because I don't think deep carbon wheels are necessary/desirable for my needs. A whole frame...definately not, just because I'd only go carbon if I had a big budget. Any then I'd want a retailer and a warrentee.

?

Isnt it exactly what you're saying?

Cheap Chinese parts = expensive branded parts without stickers

I don't doubt that some of the cheap Chinese stuff is good quality, but you don't have the comfort or knowing. You also don't have the warrantee protection/ease. There are obviously the usual counters to those points, but I still think it's a stretch to say they're the same.

I'm also inclined to agree with SF on the possibility that some people who've bought these parts might not be that honest about owning up when they have a dud.

Also this is worth a read on the differences in materials and QC etc. http://road.cc/content/review/37954-onix-azzuro

You're an absolute gift to a marketing man, keep spending and encouraging others to do so :)

And the Onix story in the link you provided:

http://road.cc/content/review/37954-onix-azzuro

This article, especially the statement from Onix's MD has more spin than a Bendix. They even had to alter their website because what they were saying about the origination of their design wasn't true (the cheeky Chinese had already come up with it). The only difference between the Onix and the 'copy' is in the grade of carbon fibre used, yet the 'copy' uses a grade that is commonplace in modern frame manufacture and perfectly fit for purpose if you want a contemporary carbon fibre frame.

The only reason I'm sticking 'these' around the word 'copy' is because it really looks like the Chinese manufacturer had the frame developed in the first place. Onix came along and said 'yep we'll have some of that re-brand it, upgrade the carbon fibre used whether it needs to be or not (after all chaps we have to have some sort of Unique Selling Proposition) and knock it out for loads of quids more. Lovely.

bare in mind China has nothing resembling patent law.

And the Onix story in the link you provided:

Yep. I pretty much agree with you on Onix.

I didnt post the link to prove definitively that big brands are never the same as Chinses ones. It was more for general info and because I thought it's interesting that anyone can go out and get a frame made in a mold. It looks like this can be done to different specs and standards. If this is true then you just don't know and you'll never know.

^ Yes, the fact that for carbon frames and forks at least all manner of moulds exist in China/Taiwan/Asia is no coincidence. It's a simple case of demand and supply. I doubt many carbon forks or frames are sold to cyclists in Beijing ;)

This isn't exactly what I'm saying. What I am saying is that these parts are manufactured in Asia anyway and then bought by Trek/Spec/Etc. They'll buy a fixed quantity and these will then be branded and packaged according to the buyer.

I can believe this is pretty close to what happens.

It's not so much that we can buy Trek or Giant or Spesh forks without the stickers, it's that we are now getting the ability to buy fork design xyz1234 from the factory that make them just as the big brands do.

There's always the possibility that customers who are buying 5000 forks at a time can return any that they're not 100% happy with for immediate and no questions asked exchange, a quality selection procedure that we, as single unit buyers, are not privvy to.

Cynics might sggest that the products that make it to ebay and the like are the ones rejected by the big brands. Who knows.

Current wheelset, Easton EA90SLX with Ti skewers, DA 7900 12-27 cassette and Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 320 TPI clinchers and latex tubes:

New wheelset, Farsports Rims, UniQ hubs, Vittoria Corsa Evo CX 320 TPI tubs, same skewers and cassette:

On the bike (sorry for the rubbish photo):

Total weight;

Waiting for tomorrow for the glue to cure so I can find out how they ride!

The tubs need centering a bit in places (see below) what's the best way of doing that?

If you didn't do it whilst the glue is still tacky, then you're going to have to live with it like that.

Ok, I'll try to only turn left

This isn't exactly what I'm saying.

I was'nt really disagreeing with you TBH. Recently companys have been open about using open molds (planet-x, pedalforce etc.).

I hear you on the "why" for internal nipples, but with tubs you would have to pull the tyre off to true them up, so I went for weaker but more convenient external nipples.

Not with tubs. major PITA.

Cynics might sggest that the products that make it to ebay and the like are the ones rejected by the big brands. Who knows.

This is the flip side of the coin.

Last picture, I promise

Looks good. Those wheels really suit it.

Thats a much better photo than the one from Current Pros D!
Lookin nice,
I have often thought about some eastern carbon tubs - how they feeling?