National Series 2011

Don't think so. That's Lebowski's job if I'm not mistaken. He's been too busy making disposable bamboo mallets.

Yep, haven't really been pulling my weight in the NS organising. I will have a site up by this weekend.

I really don't want to bang about it, but if there are teams that think that their chances of doing well will be compromised by reffing, Nice Touch supplied a ref & a whip, Spring Break had one of the best refs, Degen supplied head ref & tournament co-ordinator.

+1

Nice touch were on it both on the court and in the tent. Impressive.

I don't want to bang on about it, but if all the teams had put up a ref, that would have meant each ref doing 3 or 4 games each. Not such a huge imposition.

• 2 - make that a condition of entry for events - leave it for the teams to sort who of the three will make themselves available!
  

I think the only risk is them providing a ref who doesnt want to do it properly/know the rules, and there were a few of those this weekend (as everywhere. Im not singling out Brighton for that at all). We dont necessarily need more bad refs. More refs in general would mean that there should be more good refs though, so its worth trying.

There are definitely teams that should be doing more though. And often theyre the same teams complaining about the refs..

I would rather have a bad ref, than no ref. No ref = no game.

Plus, you learn by your mistakes.

if you're are forced to ref through the series, you may start out a bit shit, but hopefully by the end of the series everyone will have learnt something and all of a sudden we have a hella lot more good refs.

It was refreshing to ref one game and then have someone take over... doing ref blocks of an hour is lame and you get glazed eyes, it's also then impossible to convince someone else to take over as they know they'll be stuck there for an hour (or so) too.

More refs is a great idea.

As I said to Bill on the day, giving players the confidence to ref is also important.

DiceFace and Tenderloin did a sterling job at reffing having never done so before. They both said it was quite unnerving and were hesitant to ref games with players who are vocally dismissive of their decisions (naming no names).

I think that one way of gaining more refs is to make sure that they are sufficiently skilled with both the knowledge of the rules and the confidence to dish out penalties. As long as these are done impartially, it is better than a ref who is too scared to call anyone out.

They both said it was quite unnerving and were hesitant to ref games with players who are vocally dismissive of their decisions (naming no names).

Here's what to do with a player who disputes your decisions:

make him/her tap out.

2nd offence, ball turn-over or double tap-out.

3rd offence, 30 second penalty.

Right, Jono?

As I said to Bill on the day, giving players the confidence to ref is also important.

Everyone should accept that mistakes will be made - and that refs are also going to miss things - they can't give what they don't see.

All I ask is that the refs pay attention to the game, try to apply rules honestly & keep score accurately.

As long as the refs do that, they will have my total support, and the support of the majority of the players. The minority who aren't satisfied with honest endeavour can get stuffed.

DiceFace and Tenderloin did a sterling job at reffing having never done so before.

+1. Also an honourable mention to Rob of Polo Erectus, another polo ref novice.

I really think that every team in the NS events should have to submit a ref, this is a great idea.

I really think that every team in the NS events should have to submit a ref, this is a great idea.

This is not negotiable. The NS organisers are going to institute this for the whole series, starting with the next tournament.

Here's what to do with a player who disputes your decisions:

make him/her tap out.

2nd offence, ball turn-over or double tap-out.

3rd offence, 30 second penalty.

Right, Jono?

Yep, depends on the severity of the situation... we're pretty light on it really. In most other sports any chat/gestures towards the ref would result in instant penalisation, no prior warning, etc.

I tend to ignore people and say I'll talk to them afterwards, or issue tapouts, I've never had to take someone out of the game for it, but if they were being a crazy hot head (verging on reckless in the game too), then I'd take them out, no question.

As a ref, you should know the rules, say what you see and stick to your calls... can't go very wrong with that, but everyone makes a bad call every so often.

Don't change your mind or engage in conversation with any players. If you need to, stop the game and have a word with the goal refs (or neutral spectators), then issue a ball turnover, penalty, or simply restart the game (from a "reset") after you've announced your decision.

If you make a legitimate mistake (like stopping the game when you should have called advantage), think about the fairest way to proceed for both teams and honestly tell them what happened (that you made a small mistake) and instruct them on how you're going to proceed.

Can someone explain the points for the series to me please?

Does everyone in the two point bracket have the same amount of wins?

That is a fair point Bill. We (cosmic) all goal reffed but didn't take on full reffing responsibility.
I'll be honest here and say the reason I don't ref is because I don't feel too confident in that position. But then again, I'm sure I could make a few decent decisions...

Reffing is something I just don't like to do. Of course I appreciate anyone who steps up.
I don't want my team singled out for the wrong reasons though. It's not being avoided because we can't be bothered ok.

It's good to discuss these things. We'll all help out a bit more in future like all teams should.

I really struggled to ref cosmic/spring break semi final, not least because i'd had a beer but also the light was fading and just about everyone was watching intently. something happened on court that I missed and I got shouted at by a few, which was a bit unnerving. it was nice to have support next to me (i'm really sorry I didnt get your name) however I believe that sort of high energy game should be reffed by someone with the experience and confidence to shout back at hecklers.. also, I missed a balljoint to goal when La Pique was playing and called it (i'm positive the goal ref called the goal), which was the right decision given the circumstances, but I should've paid more attention, so I apologise for that mistake Schmoove..

i would like to get better at reffing, so will offer myself up for more, but feel (as Todd above) I need more experience and confidence.

Yes, we all need more experience and confidence.

I've reffed on and off for a while, I don't call much, have made bad calls, and missed bad play. I am often not heard telling players to tap out because I don't shout enough, etc etc. We could ref team games, or even throw-ins as practice, and if you are serious about getting into it, ref at any tourneys that you can. Some will be good at it some wont, but until we have the luxury of too many refs, then we need to make people do it.

I really struggled to ref cosmic/spring break semi final, not least because i'd had a beer but also the light was fading and just about everyone was watching intently. something happened on court that I missed

No shame in missing something in one of those games. I have reffed Cosmic vs Spring Break in broad daylight and missed plenty. In low light, after a couple of beers...

Might it be an idea to start people off by asking them to take a turn at goal reffing first? at least then they get the feeling of being involved with the game and become more familiar with crowd heckling or player "chat" without the responsibility of calling the final shot - thats the refs job.

Really appreciate everyone who steps up for all these roles though - games couldnt happen without them!

That is a fair point Bill. We (cosmic) all goal reffed but didn't take on full reffing responsibility.
I'll be honest here and say the reason I don't ref is because I don't feel too confident in that position. But then again, I'm sure I could make a few decent decisions...

Reffing is something I just don't like to do. Of course I appreciate anyone who steps up.
I don't want my team singled out for the wrong reasons though. It's not being avoided because we can't be bothered ok.

It's good to discuss these things. We'll all help out a bit more in future like all teams should.

The only reason I have decided that this is the way forward is because in a one day tournament with few non-playing refs, it becomes a real burden to ref, if only a few step forward. A number of refs, myself included, ended up reffing either right before or right after they played.

It's simply not fair to those players, and those teams, to let them do all the reffing. In a multi-day tournament, it's not quite such a pain, as you can ref knowing that you aren't playing that day, or at least not until much later on.

Saturday each ref averaged 9 games each. If every team had put forward a ref, the average would have been 3 games each.

I totally appreciate that it's intimidating to ref - I get intimidated - but at the end of the day it's only bike polo. The players that are getting bent out of shape, and disputing calls days after the game has finished are making fools of themselves.

Is there anything in the current rules, about back chatting the ref?

One thing that i brought up over the weekend is that it is impossible for the ref to spot everything and calls may be wrong sometimes. That is the nature of reffing, we are only human.

With that said, this is exactly why we need goal refs to be more than someone who can spot a shuffle or not. You are the second and third pair of eyes. The ref relies on you to spot foul play and flag it.

Is there anything in the current rules, about back chatting the ref?

Yep. It's the first penalty listed:

13.1 – The referee has the right to use at his/her discretion any of the available penalties at any time, in any order for the infraction in question.
13.1.1 – Any aggressive or argumentative back–chat towards the referee can result in a penalty.